Michał Wawer, on behalf of the Confederate Parliamentary Club, on the draft resolution on “the appointment of an Investigative Commission to examine the legality, regularity and usefulness of operational and investigative activities undertaken, inter alia, utilizing Pegasus software by members of the Council of Ministers, peculiar services, police, taxation and customs inspection bodies during the period from 16 November 2015 to 20 November 2023.”
"The Pegasus Commission is very much needed, and this is no doubt. What the PiS did with Pegasus in the area of citizen surveillance is simply calling for vengeance to Heaven. Anyone could have been eavesdropped. He could have been eavesdropped anywhere. And any of us could have been eavesdropped without any real control and ability to account for it. Which, perhaps, the worst information obtained from these illegal wiretaps did not just stay in national hands, but most likely went consecutive to the hands of an Israeli company and Israeli intelligence. And the scale of the harm that has been caused in the national interest by this transmission should be 1 of the things that this committee has yet to explain so that we can actually investigate, measure and account for the crimes. due to the fact that it must be called by name – crimes against the national interest of the Polish state.
What falls within the scope of this committee is not acceptable. due to the fact that the committee doesn't do 2 very crucial things. Firstly, it does not settle the activities of the Citizens' Platform from 2007-2015. Despite our appeals, the ruling coalition has not decided to extend the scope of this committee. And there is something to settle the Civic Platform and the Polish People's Party. The most media example, entering the editorial office of Wprost, occupying journalistic laptops. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.
We know that on a massive scale, in millions a year, Polish citizens' telephone records were analysed during the Platform's rule. We do not know, however, what was the scale at the time of eavesdropping, surveillance of citizens, journalists, politicians. The platform did not have Pegasus, and that is the only thing to say in favour of the Platform. However, what was the scale of the violations during this period we do not know. That is why the committee should besides cover this period 2007-2015. But of course the Platform does not intend to account for itself.
The second thing the Pegasus committee doesn't do is change the system. Currently, the legal system, the judicial control, the accounting of how specified operations are carried out, consisting of surveillance, eavesdropping, is simply a strategy which is fatal. And the appointment of 1 committee of enquiry won't change that.
We request that all situation of eavesdropping, surveillance of the Polish citizen be carried out solely on the basis of a prior decision of the court. To be a justice to whom they come, they ask approval to do so and only erstwhile this consent is given can any operational action be taken. In order for the justice to make specified a decision consciously, he must have access to all the evidence and not only what the service decides to show him.
It is now that the services come to the judges as bureaucratic officials who are to blindly pin what the services were doing. What do we need? We request a situation where the servants come to the judges as petents. Where they gotta prove convincingly, convince the justice that it is imperative to apply operational actions in this case. And that must be changed, systemically. And if you don't do this during this term, the effect will only be that in 4 or 8 years from now you will have your Kamiński, you will have your criminals profoundly immersed in the activities of the services, in the surveillance of Poles. due to the fact that if there are no good institutional, systemic solutions, then specified power simply tempts. ...
