Katarzyna Przyborska: What has the Left done this year and achieved in this coalition?
Anna Maria Zukowska: respective elements of our program have been conducted, including the flagship one, widow’s pension. In addition, in vitro funded from the state budget, although this was not only our request, the support programme for young parents and subsidies for carers of people with disabilities. And that for the next year PLN 3.5 billion is guaranteed for the construction of housing for inexpensive rental.
The support program for young parents, or "grandmother", is Donald Tusk's idea, so you must share this success as well.
Yes, it is actual that Donald Tusk made a request akin to this solution.
On the another hand, the widow's pension collects well-deserved criticism from the communities of independent parents, who point out his social injustice, due to the fact that their contributions will be utilized by people who through their lives went together and have the property of 2 people – and those divorced or single were offered to go to MOPS for help.
I don't know if that was said. I don't think so, due to the fact that it's beautiful arrogant. They're always dissatisfied, but they gotta start somewhere. The biggest group in request of support is widowed seniors. Looking at the number of these people and the scale of the problem, it was very crucial and necessary. It was the main subject with which we were called, written, talked in campaigns on the streets of cities. And I know, of course, that there's a social group that doesn't stand a chance, including me, for example, getting that benefit.
If the Sejm had first passed a partnership, this criticism bill would have been less.
As shortly as we adopt government on partnerships, we plan to supply them with benefits. But it is not possible to enter a partnership in a single law if it is not yet in operation in Polish law.
What else did the Lefties defend?
We besides have effectiveness on the negative side, i.e. blocking certain solutions, specified as attempts reductions in the wellness contribution.
I don't think that's for sure, due to the fact that Poland 2050 seems to be determinedto win in this field. possibly there's a way to grade the contribution depending on income? Left offered taxation progression, possibly there was a request for premium progression?
Our proposal to Mr Domanski is simply a wellness tax. Fair, progressive and encompassing all – not only entrepreneurs, but besides commercial law companies, which means we are talking about the CIT tax. There is so a solution on the table, which money for the budget brings, not money from it.
We can make advancement in taxes, so let's make that tax. wellness situation indeed becomes dramatic, so possibly Minister Domanski will one more time agree to bend over this solution.
Let's go to the ministries. Agnieszka Dziemianowicz-Bąk conducts a successful policy and collects praise alternatively than criticism. The public is impressed by the origin and effectiveness. This is different for Ministry of Science. Are you defending the minister or are there going to be changes?
We defend as much as possible due to the fact that just due to the fact that individual made any mistake – a political mistake, not a crime – does not mean that 1 should not effort to get out of specified a stalemate. besides Minister Dziemianowicz-Bąk there are hard situations, any blackout of the mechanism, and you gotta get out of it.
I will effort to persuade Minister Wieczorek to have a deeper dialog with the technological community, due to the fact that seemingly specified average conversations in the office are not enough, a broader consultation is needed. any of the Institutes of the Polish Academy of Sciences agreed with the ministerial proposal, but most are against it due to the fact that they fear that in the future specified a solution may turn against the academic community.
In the past, the Polish Academy of Sciences was an advisory body to the Prime Minister, not to the Minister. This is simply a somewhat different arrangement, which is why the effort to submit to the Polish Ministry of abroad Affairs raises resistance. In addition, after 8 years of looking at the governments of the Law and Justice, the anticipation of the sensitivities of the governing social voice increased. This is not a good image for the Left, that scientists, as an example of good relations, give contact with Minister Gowin. Even if they were politically not on their way, Minister Gowin listened and reacted.
I realize the intent of Mr Wieczorek, which is to pave the way for the promotion of young scientists, but I do not know if the institution of the Polish Academy of Sciences is the most effective means of this, due to the fact that there are academies all over the world, which are made up of people with large wealth. The problem is at a lower level, i.e. the work done by professors, which is mostly assessed excellently, and this does not always coincide with the facts. Sometimes it's just, brutally speaking, people in these advanced places aren't besides busy. It would so be appropriate to decently verify achievements and work, to give opportunities for improvement and, if it is not, to let others to take these positions.
Well, just the question of whether specified methods should make a technological environment within themselves, or whether there should be a top-down command from politicians.
Sometimes it's that 1 or another environment is very focused on its interests. I am not saying that this is the case in this case, but there is simply a natural tendency. This is why professional corporations, trade unions are formed to defend their interests. So sometimes you request an external pulse. But I am taught the experience, whether it be about justice or another environments, that if something is not agreed with the environment or at least there is no dialog about it, the proposed solution will be seen as imposed and the environment will reject it.
The situation in discipline has specified an effect that scientists call on Prime Minister Tusk to "further" and order. It is not beneficial for the Left that its ministers, which should be with the technological community along the way, do incomprehensible things and origin specified sharp conflicts that the Prime Minister must intervene.
The State should not act in intervention or crisis. This is not the management kind of the 21st century – I might comment on it.
However, this is simply a consistent kind of Prime Minister's policy, which leads to a simplification in the efficiency of its co-coalists.
Yes, but we will not change the character of the Prime Minister.
Of course not, but knowing this style, possibly it's not worth taking a dump? investigation shows that voters of the Civic Coalition are satisfied due to the fact that they see the perp...
The Left voters are besides pleased with the government.
On the side of democratic voters there is disappointment and demobilization, on the side of PiS voters and Confederacy discontent and mobilisation. If the elections were to be right now, the government would be creating PiS with the Confederate. This is the darkest scenario.
We promised. But whether we promised them as individual parties or as a full coalition, they have a chance to be introduced only erstwhile the president is changed. The issues of the regulation of law, the KRS, the Constitutional Court, the ultimate Court, the partnerships, abortions or even pills can only be resolved if individual else sits at the Presidential Palace. Here, a powerful determination and mobilisation of all electorates is necessary, due to the fact that without it, I will not bet 100% of the candidate's triumph or candidate from the governing coalition. And this must be a victory, or you can't rule.
Individual coalitions will exhibit their candidates or candidates. Is that a sign of problem inside the coalition on October 15th?
There is simply a request for universal mobilization, that is, to mobilise its own voters. There's no another way to do this than to exposure your candidates. The deficiency of a candidate or candidate of our own means a six-month absence from the media, and we request to mobilize the electorates of all parties. For me, it is natural that, regardless of who among us manages to enter the second round, we will all be sympathetically supporting this person, due to the fact that this is the only chance of systemic change that we all agree on. There won't be a full mobilization if we put 1 candidate at a time.
Who will be the candidate?
We don't know that yet.
When will the election run start?
I think erstwhile the marshal announces the election deadline, which he will most likely do in January. Then you should be ready with a candidate or candidate, collect signatures – so December or early January.
If the Citizen Coalition candidate is Radosław Sikorski, what will be his willingness to pass on the left-wing vote?
No, that's not gonna happen. But the electorate of the left will want the government to proceed to function and not be the government of Law and Justice with the Confederate. I believe very profoundly that we will win this election, but if this doesn't work, then there will be paralysis. It will turn out that it is all the regulation of law that cannot be delivered, and we will see chaos even deeper than it is at the moment.
If the KO candidate is Rafał Trzaskowski, any left-wing voters can vote for him in the first round.
I don't care about things I can't control. It is not my decision who will be displayed by the Civic Platform and the PiS, whose candidate may besides influence the logic of the campaign. If we see who's running, then we can formulate a run strategy.
How do you want to make certain that the Left Club has 26 votes all the time, which means that the organization stays in it together?
I think the club will shortly have 1 little vote. It'll be Voice of Paulina MatysiakBecause this case can't go on anymore. It is dysfunctional for the club, for all parties, including for the organization Together, and above all completely incomprehensible for voters outside a tiny online bubble. The club must be in control. If the price for regaining control is to be the voice of 1 MP, I am able to pay this price.
What if she and Paulina Matysiak leave Adrian Zandberg, Maciej Necessary?
Then I will be very sorry due to the fact that they are excellent Members, but I am not convinced that this will happen. This is besides the decision of the Together Party, which has its members. I'm certain by the end of the year, the organization together will someway find itself in relation to the club. Whether it will prevail the option of further cooperation within the coalition club, or the option of exiting the club and creating a ellipse – we will see.
The less MPs in the circle, the little strength the club has.
As for the government, From the beginning we negotiated as fresh Left, i.e. the number of Members available to fresh Left. That's what Donald Tusk knows, and everyone knew the organization together doesn't number on it.
Are you afraid that if the time comes for the reconstruction of the government, it will turn out that these ministries of the Left have less?
I don't think there's any reconstruction planned before the presidential election. There are various reasons for any changes or shuffling, specified as Mr. Kierwiński as a proxy for the removal of floods. But it's not a reconstruction. She's usually moving in the mediate of her term, and that'll be after the presidential election. Then something may happen, but it will besides depend on the results of the presidential election.
In order to mobilize the electorate, we may request to return to the abortion issue. For now, the Minister of Equality, Catherine Kotula, despite large efforts, has no effect. It seems that there was not adequate determination by the Prime Minister to mobilize his and the coalitions to support the law decriminating abortion aid.
I assure you that things will be moving forward soon. We are determined to make the task a government project. And I think the Prime Minister will be anxious to get the majority for him, which is why I anticipate him to be more active than last time. Now I think it was indeed a small game to wait out from the Prime Minister, who has different priorities. We can't let Minister Kotul get the union cases. She will do everything that belongs to her, and the parliamentary majority must be found, and this majority must be provided by the Prime Minister, due to the fact that this is his government.
Yeah, but then the PSL suits you that you didn't vote for the government's shooting bill.
The government bill passed. It wasn't like the bill went away. any of us didn't vote, and that was settled. We shared so that any might vote against, but yet the bill passed. On the another hand, there is no chance that the Law and Justice will support the task of liberalisation of abortion or partnerships, so the coalition will should be mobilised. erstwhile a government bill falls, any average opposition immediately submits a motion of distrust to the government. I'm certain the Prime Minister won't let that happen.
The government proposed to voters a performance entitled “We'll Clear the Law and Justice”. These accounts go on. He seems to have been written by a moderately talented writer.
It's more like vaudeville. I think besides much expectations have been raised. The future (then) Prime Minister promised that within 2 weeks after winning the election he would reconstruct the regulation of law and put the guilty in prison. In a brutal way, public opinion was bloodthirsty and she wanted to see individual in prison. But politicians don't put politicians in jail.
I realize the logic of the run and the desire to mobilise the toughest electorate, but it was not entirely liable due to the fact that it simply could not be achieved. We must say that the regulation of law will only be corrected if the president changes and the fresh president stands on the democratic side. This is the subject of a completely fresh story, affirmative and mobilising all the electorates of the ruling coalition.
How now on this last line before the presidential election to mobilize those who have been completely discouraged and disappointed for a year?
The promise that only then everything will move, that then they will simply open paths to yet get what we promised and what the current president blocks.
How do you justice this last year from the point of view of the Left in government? I realize it's clear that joining the government was not a mistake.
I'm looking at 4 pluses. The goal of political parties is to rule, exercising power or at least any part of it. The parties are not think tanks. They may have a think tank, as much as possible, they are noble and legitimate, but we think you request to take work for the state. She's not easy or pleasant, sometimes you can make mistakes. There are no governments that make no mistakes. Apart from Deputy Minister Wiesław Szczepanski, no of us had been in the government before.
So that's a lesson, too?
The government was joined by politicians of different generations than those ruled by the SLD, PSL or the Labour Union 18 years ago. It is besides a certain cognition and skill, competences that we did not have, which they do not teach in college – how the ministry works from the inside. It's a know-how you do erstwhile you're already inside. And it actually took us a while to see how this complicated power apparatus works. After all, the ministry is not only a minister, there are besides departments, interministerial consultations, where you can object, a reservation where you can effort to fight something before the task leaves the government. That's the cognition we've been gaining this year. I think it's quite a few capital for the Left, and I'm not ashamed to say that we just had to learn that.
Does the Left now see itself as a typical of those groups who feel the most disregarded by today's Prime Minister's conduct, or human rights defenders? Lawlessness at the border It was expected to stop, and it's inactive going on.
On Saturday, the Prime Minister announced a migration strategy that no of us had always seen before. He said he had it prepared. Minister Duszczyk, which is someway optimistic, while this strategy nobody read, no 1 consulted. The Prime Minister just wants to announce it and I don't know what's going to happen. I'm a small concerned, given the government's pushback policy, which has been taken straight from the Law and Justice.
Is there a place here for the Left?
I'm certain there's a place to look historically. The human rights of the Left has always been in her DNA. But we're in government, and the situation isn't perfect or comfortable for the Left. We are trying to find ourselves in it and influence these policies of the state where we have ministries where we can study something. besides on this border law, 2 provisions were amended at the committee's work stage.
And first I want to hear what the Prime Minister truly has to say about migration.
For example, will we see a strategy that assumes not only what is happening at the border, but besides integration, language learning, asylum eligibility, support, right to work?
However, the issue of the border with Belarus is crucial due to the fact that it threatens to escalate, with expanding violence. We may shortly be dealing with the exchange of fire, as in Hungary, with surviving shields.
We got it. There are people trained to do this by the Belarusian services, which are forced to do it or brought in for this purpose, in order to decently service as mercenaries.
At the same time, trade with Belarus has been the largest in at least 10 years. Since 2021, as calculated by the Center for east Studies, exports from Poland have grown. Thanks to him, Russia bypasses sanctions, but we besides buy goods that are worth buying.
I didn't know that.
Is it so possible to halt force on the border by sanctions?
I heard erstwhile an open migration way didn't close. That if smugglers learn a trail, they'll stick to it and it won't disappear. So I don't think even force or sanctions can change the situation. I think the good direction is what Minister Sikorski does – that is, acting in countries from which migrants leave.
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Anna Maria Żukowska – Politician and lawyer, associate of Parliament for the 9th and 10th term, president of the Coalition Left Parliamentary Club.
