No 1 will be excluded from the audit we want to conduct. The pinewood diocese must be saved and set its way for the future – says Fr.
HEALTH OF THE SOXINE DIES
Paweł Chmielewski: The bishop of the diocese of pinewood was taken in late spring. Vacation's almost over. Now it's work time?
Fr. bp Artur Important: First there was Easter, then a vacation that interrupted the process of deeper designation of the diocese and the tasks that lie ahead of me. September definitely initiates a fresh time.
The bishop said why he decided to embrace the pinewood diocese: obedience to the papal will. But wouldn't it be better to return to the position quo ante – and the pine diocese to dispel between those from which it originated?
It would be any kind of divorce, and we know that it's impossible in the Church... To be serious, I think it would be a large harm to all those who, after so many years of the diocese, already feel a community. Yes, a community in a way hurt and hurt; however, liquidation would be to the detriment of people. The pinewood diocese is simply a separate entity and reality that has functioned for many years. It's worth saving.
The Bishop appointed 2 committees. They're expected to aid save lives?
These commissions were very awaited by people who live in the diocese, but besides by the Church in Poland and the media. Their creation was a necessity. Now I'm getting a small insight into what they're expected to do. So far, I've divided it into a media and audit committee. The media is to learn the fact about what happened here – due to the fact that the fact liberates and without the fact we cannot live. Besides, freedom is needed in order for love to reappear here. Love rejoices with truth; without fact it is hard to carry out the mission of the Church, which is to proclaim love. The second commission is audit, related to discernment for the future – a look at the diocese, its wealth and weaknesses, the arrangement of certain things, the removal of difficulties and the setting of a way and imagination for the future.
At the head of the first commission, the U.S. lawyer will stand at rest, Mrs. Wioletta Guia. She had previously worked in Katowice. Isn't that besides close to Sosnowiec? In another words, will there be any individual ties in the committee's work?
Sometimes specified connections can appear and without specified geographical proximity. I think that Mrs. Wioletta Guia is so small connected to our environment that she guarantees impartiality; on the another hand, she is so close that she understands the situation and the planet in which we are, due to the fact that Sosnowiec is besides a Silesian province, nevertheless Zabrze and another mentality. I think Mrs. Guia can handle it. This is the right proportion of closeness and independence, distance.
‘LAVEND MAFIA’
The media committee is expected to explain the fact – but what exactly? Did the lavender mafia operate in the Diocese of Sosnowiec for years?
It's hard for me to talk about this without knowing the situation. It is not specified a clear matter; there are very delicate issues and there may be various innuendos, slanders or even slanders. It takes any time and I don't want to propose any more judgment. Of course, I already have any signals from people who want to meet me and talk to me, give me any information. That's why this committee is here. Its members say that I, as an outsider, can have any assurance that people would like to give me, come and tell me any things that they had previously, for various reasons, it was hard for them to say.
Does the Catholic Church have lavender homosexual mafia?
I wouldn't go so far in grades that this is the mob. But I know that there are individual situations of this type, due to the fact that I just met them. In Tarnów, I did not see this very often, but here I hear the voices of the media and people who are dealing with it and who have experienced various types of connections. The Church has been operating for so many years and there are besides specified incorrect relations. It's not easy to admit them, but we'll try.
A fewer months ago, the full of Poland lived on the issue of Collegium Humanum, where the subject of clerical homosexuality was very important. Is it even possible, in the Bishop's opinion, to cross the issue in human terms so that homosexuals in the Church stop, to say so, to reproduce?
I've been far from reasoning about these things for many years. I turned alternatively in the environment of heterosexual priests active in the life of the Church. Yes, there were any individual events, but it was said that the highlanders were not involved... However, I am aware that this is rather a wide problem in the Church. I can't tell if it's humanly uprootable. There is besides the force of civilization and culture, the approval of certain things. We are aware that our committees may encounter any difficulty at work due to the fact that we may be accused of homophobia or any another inappropriate behaviour erstwhile we look for specified connections.
STAFF DECISIONS. HORNING KASZAK
Will you make any extremist decisions erstwhile it comes to personality? erstwhile the Apostolic admin in Sosnowiec became Archbishop Adrian Galbas, in his first decision he confirmed everyone in erstwhile positions. Is it right – or are sharp cuts necessary?
There are different schools: either throw individual who can't swim or systematically tame them with water. The problem is not simple: erstwhile you come to a fresh reality you don't know who to thin on. However, I have a fresh man who is, as it were, above the structure that has continued so far.
Who are you talking about?
This is Fr.Dr. Tomasz Smalcerz, recognized lawyer, consultant to various church bodies. He's a vicar general and besides a moderator of curia, like a conductor...
Didn't Fr Smalcer grow out of the Sosnowiecian Curia?
He worked in a bishop's court, so he was a small off the side of this reality. I think he's in Sosnowiec well known and respected by priests that he can service this function. We will slow make the various decisions that will should be taken with both committees.
Will the investigation of the committee besides be carried out by the erstwhile Sosnowiec priest Bishop Grzegorz Kaszak? In June of that year he gave the sacrament of confirmation in Olkusz, after the canonical embrace of the diocese by the Bishop.
This is 1 of the elements of the audit that we want to carry out: no 1 will be excluded from this. Bishop Grzegorz Kashak, as we know, is not punished and there is no ban on service. On the another hand, we spoke after the event which the Lord is talking about; we agreed that for the sake of our community he would no longer undertake the services associated with the sacraments. He accepted it sincerely and with understanding. I think Bishop Kashak will be open to accepting our various proposals made by committee members. I hope so; I have no reason to say otherwise.
‘CLERICALISM’
What are sexual scandals from in the Church? Apart from individual sins – do they have any structural causes?
I think this is where this celebrated clericalism comes in, which Pope Francis so frequently speaks of. It involves a sense of impunity, a mistaken knowing of power. specified conditions make it impossible to full access the truth. There is besides much ease of double life, in any lie and hypocrisy. any people see it as they just keep quiet or retreat, even walk away. I hope that the warrant of transparency and clarity of various activities in the Church will be to let the secular to cooperate and share responsibility, although I know that this is hard for many.
So the laymen would aid to overcome clericalism?
Yeah. This is besides my life's priestly experience. From the beginning of my priesthood, I worked with young people: I was a youth pastor, for many years an academic pastor. This experience showed me that these young people, erstwhile they grew up and started families, became good coworkers. I think this common cooperation is in the DNA of the Church. Nor am I besides afraid about secular clericalism. This may be a problem, but I think that if we follow the spiritual way together, complementing each other's competences – that is the way to heal. This is my experience to date, besides as a parish priest – and I trust that it will be akin as a diocesan bishop.
SYNOD ON SYNODALITY
The function of seculars is simply a very crucial component of the Synod debate on Synodality. In Poland, this synod is not of much interest, and it will be its final phase in Rome in October. What changes do you anticipate from the Synod?
In smaller ecclesiastical realities, specified a change is already being made. As an auxiliary bishop in Tarnów diocese, I conducted visits to the parish; there we had a diocesan synod, which was later merged with the universal Synod on Synodality. I noticed that there were very different parishes: in any parishes nothing was done, but in others the process could be utilized well. They began to meet, to talk, to pray together, and mature pastoral counsel was formed. I had a chance to see them. Even if people said that what they worked out and passed on to the advanced level was not necessarily taken into account, however, at the local level, in the parish, there was a change of reality: a common work was established for the benefit of the church community. So there were specified fruits and I anticipate them to be on a higher level, possibly even a general church. I hope this is how the synod will work.
Many cardinals and bishops believe that the Synod on Synodality, however, is to make any doctrinal and moral changes. This is not just a conspiracy theory, due to the fact that last December the blessings of LGBT couples were introduced, as discussed earlier on the synod. Do you not think that after the Synod of Synodality Catholic doctrine and morality will no longer be the same, at least in Europe?
I trust not. I think we'll keep the doctrine. During the ad limina gathering with Pope Francis, we besides discussed the synod about the Amazon. The Pope said there were expectations of major changes, but yet it turned out that there were no large revolutions. We can of course justice this differently, but Francis himself said that at first it looked dangerous, and later the Holy Spirit prevailed and disbanded our human ideas for the Church. I hope that the Holy Spirit will aid us to search the fact – as Jesus says, it will lead us to the truth.
BLESSING PAR LGBT
After declaration Fiducia supplicans Fr. Leszek Gęsiak, on behalf of the Permanent Council of KEP, has issued a message that there has been and will not be blessing LGBT couples in Poland. Could you sign this statement?
Yeah. We cannot apply specified blessings as would be in the sacramental image. It is different erstwhile individual asks for prayer, wants to discern God's will and live in harmony with what is contained in the Gospel – we can always pray for someone. It's not forbidden, it can be done. It is akin in the sacramental forum: sometimes individual comes and cannot be forgiven, but receives a blessing. Of course, Fiducia supplicans This is simply a controversial paper and we know that any episcopals have spoken rather strongly. There were later interpretations and adverbs that were not to be. Turns out there's not truly any clarity about this. possibly this is an invitation to us to mature, to learn more about what is happening in the world. I think the Holy Father has a good will, although in practice it can come out differently – it can be misreceived, misunderstood. However, the Pope wants the Gospel to scope everyone. Many things Francis does are specified a starting point, and then we can go further to evangelize these people as far as possible – so that people having a problem with the Gospel will want to accept it in full, or at least in any part, as far as they can. We have large hearts and we want to be open to everyone. However, specified a sieve besides comes – due to the fact that we cannot accept everything.
So there will be no blessing of LGBT couples in the Diocese of Sosnowiec who want to live as they live?
Of course not. Decalogue is binding on everyone. We're not changing the Decalogue.
Bishop said in 1 of the interviews that he wanted to make a pastoral ministry for homosexuals. Why specified a drag on the head of pastoral life in the diocese?
Someone later wrote that we wanted to be open to homosexuality. The church was never confined to homosexuals. The point is to meet people, especially parents of homosexuals or transsexuals. specified people endure very much that their children follow a different path. any even renounce their children, while others change their attitude and reject teaching the Church to be close to the children. We want to make support groups, specified pastoral work already appears in Poland. We cannot stay indifferent: this is an expanding group, with facts not discussed. We meet marriages, parents, siblings. We come out of reality. I've been talking to the sister of a homosexual who can't handle it. We're sending them back to specified support groups. They're inactive moving on the Internet, but I think they might besides be stationary. It's crucial not to leave anyone in pain.
CHARYSMATIC GROUPS IN THE CHURCH
W There are many groups today. Bishop frequently cooperates with charismatic groups. Are these groups the hope of the Church or the problem of the Church?
I want they were just reality, like another groups. If they are a problem, it is, I think, due to the fact that at any point there is no common understanding. You gotta hit your chest first that we, as pastors, bishops, sometimes left these people alone. Problems arise erstwhile there is no companionship and appropriate formation. These people want to work somehow; sometimes they effort to find a way outside the parish, or outside the Church... I'm not saying they're not blameless, but they've become independent leaders. Here I see any danger: due to the fact that in order to cope, they focus a small on psychology of faith, sensitivity, superficiality. No deeper formation, no theology. The problem is besides the way leaders of specified communities operate. They effort to draw from Protestant sources or spiritual sources, where the abbot or prior is of large importance in the community. It causes suffering or even abuse.
So hope – or a problem?
I have the experience of specified communities where a deeper formation of spiritual life has been undertaken: Ignatian retreats, lectio divinaSome began to survey theology. I have many affirmative experiences with these movements, including academic pastoralism. As I said, erstwhile these young people grew up and started families, they worked wonderfully in the Church, even at the diocesan or general church level, creating formational communities, engaging in the pastoral ministry of marriages or young people, preparing for sacraments. I see very affirmative fruit.
However, there are ideas in the charismatic movement – represented in Poland by people at the summits of this movement – that all historical forms of Christianity should be rejected and a fresh church should be built.
The fresh Church does not request to be built – it is one, Christ, he will always be the same. But to any degree there will be an external form. We see that the Church is changing, but there is always a spine, and the Church of Jesus Christ will be built on it. The point is not to adapt to the world, but to dialog with it somehow, to usage language – it is paradoxically very important, at the outset even more crucial than doctrine. Not in the sense of changing or avoiding doctrine; but the language is the first erstwhile it comes to gathering another man. If I meet him, I'll make communication, then I'll tell him the fact of the Gospel. Therefore, any forms and language will change so that we can dialog with a planet that unfortunately does not realize Christianity, does not want to realize it, fears it – due to the fact that Christianity means a change in life.
TARIFF MISS
The Bishop says about fresh forms – and on the another hand a increasing group of Catholics in the world, besides in Poland and in many European countries, he believes it would be right to return to the old liturgical forms – as safe, full Catholic truth. What do you think of the communities associated with the Trident Mass?
In many situations, I am not surprised. In the Church of Academic Pastorship in Tarnów, where I was the first rector, there was a conventional mass. This is inactive the case today. I myself had a desire – after Pope Benedict XVI, as it is said, released conventional mass – to learn and celebrate it. I wanted to get a small spiritual. I think that's what I missed in the seminary: we were not very much told about this deep spirituality associated with the Mass held for the Second Vatican Council. That's why I wanted to... However, a fresh discipline arose [Traditionalis custodes – ed.].
I am aware that for many people it is simply a very hard experience erstwhile they go to their parish and see how the Holy Mass is held there... It hurts them, it scares them. I spoke to 1 woman recently, who said that if her husband kissed her like a parish priest kissing an altar at Mass, then their matrimony would have broken up long ago. She asked me to tell that parish priest to pay more attention to the liturgical celebration. People have delicate hearts. They look at what happens: sometimes there's quite a few abuse, sometimes just negligence. They miss the beauty of the liturgy. I miss it myself.
So you will not fight the conventional mass in Sosnowiec?
Nope. I would then go against myself, against the identity of the Church. It is crucial to survey traditions, to be able to usage them besides today. I am respectful of the liturgical tradition, due to the fact that the Church drew and inactive draws from it. We can't fight ourselves and cut the branch we're sitting on. I am trying to realize the Holy Father and why he is conducting specified activities. However, I am besides trying to realize people for whom this tradition is very important. There are no specified centres in our diocese. I know they were, but after they showed up, Traditionalis custodes it has changed; it is known that this now requires the approval of the Holy See. We've already got signals that people associated with conventional mass want to meet me. No problem, we can meet and decide what to do next.
BISBUP TESTS
How the Bishop perceives the most crucial task of the bishop: not in Sosnowiec, but in general. What's a bishop for?
On the day I heard from the nuncio that I would become a bishop, I read online that the Holy Father announced the Year of Saint Joseph on that day. It was December 8, 2020. He published a letter. Patris corde"The Father's Heart". It became my bishop's call. From the beginning, God gave me the designation that this is the bishop's ministry. In the primacy picture, I had the words “Our Father” to the priesthood. It's meaningful to me that my fatherhood is always with me. This is the ministry of the bishops: as in Rembrandt's celebrated painting, 2 hands of the bishop, motherly and fatherly. They should accompany people who will come: on the 1 hand, they request to be hugged and listened to, on the another hand, sometimes set limits, although sometimes it hurts.
Will the Bishop be a father only to priests, or to all in the diocese?
When I started serving in Sosnowiec, it was the first thing that occurred to me in prayer to meet with priests – but besides secular ones. It's hard to make it to the ingress, but someway it worked, in all the decanats. There's no way to meet all the laymen, but at least with representatives. I met with laymen, there was a common prayer, then a gathering with priests. Both. We will do nothing in the Church without each other.
God bless the conversation.
