Conversation with Alexander Dugin
I propose starting with a paper that is now on everyone's lips in Russia, Europe and even China. We're talking about the fresh United States National safety Strategy. In particular, Swiss media straight compose that this text mostly reflects the speech of our president Vladimir Putin in Munich. From your point of view, is that truly so?
– You know, together with the publication of the U.S. National safety Strategy, we are again observing Trump's celebrated oscillations between the MAGA camp and neoconservatives – the fluctuations we are constantly talking about in our programs and which we are carefully monitoring. And we can honestly say: the present doctrine is written on behalf of MAGA. This is the actual doctrine of “Make America large Again” – the voice of strong opponents of globalisation and harsh critics of the neoconservative core – the same core that Trump won the election.
In fact, this strategy is very akin to what I called “the order of large powers” in my book on Trump. Today, this word is increasingly heard in the public space – the "Concert of large Powers". This means that the West no longer sees itself as a guarantor of democracy, does not advance liberal values, takes no work for all humanity and does not see itself as part of 1 space with Europe. America is on its own now. It inactive strives for its size, development, dominance, but clearly designates the territory of this dominance – primarily the Western hemisphere, both American continents. Hence, the word “the successor of Monroe’s doctrine”. The next example is the addition, the improvement of a certain geopolitical project, and this successor Trump is actually a government of large powers.
What do Trump and his supporters say in this document? America focuses mainly on 2 continents: North America (including, if you can say so, Greenland as a natural extension of Alaska) and the full of South America. This is their zone, they reserve it for each another unconditionally. As for the remainder of the world, the main globalistic thesis that the main strategical opponents are Russia and China, has disappeared. There are no specified records anymore. Russia is viewed alternatively neutrally and even kindly as a possible partner. China is seen as a serious economical competitor and a certain threat, but no longer as an enemy in the old sense. The interference in the mediate East and another Euro-Asian zones will be reduced almost to zero. Africa has been declared indifferent, India is not mentioned at all, so they are no longer considered a strategical partner.
Turns out it's a real multipolar world. Trump openly declares: yes, we stay the biggest pole, we will keep and impose our hegemony, but we will importantly limit it. Rejecting a globalistic agenda objectively opens the way for another poles – Russia, China, India – to full entrenched. And as for the rest, Trump simply says: I don't care, make your poles or don't make as you want. At the same time, of course, American hegemony is highly cautious of BRICS and any consolidation of another civilizations. This addition to the Monro'e Doctrine poses a direct challenge for the full of Latin America and will force it to search a common strategy to prevent overt American dominance on its continent. The same goes for Africa.
In fact, we are dealing with a profoundly anti-European strategy. Atlantic solidarity is mentioned only with sarcasm and ridicule. It is proposed to "share the burden" of military spending in NATO: America is relieved of its primary work for Europe, leaving only key positions. It's actually the end of Atlantism as such. Europe is now forced to think for itself and make its own poles of civilization.
This doctrine accurately reflects the MEGA approach with which Trump came to power. Then he became very distant from it: he did not engage in Ukrainian conflict, covered him with a mask alternatively of a real solution, bombed Iran, radically supported Netanyahu – he very much left the first program. In this strategy, he returns to the basics: he returns to MEGA. It is not by chance that the paper has caused real panic among globalists – both in Europe and in the United States itself. They cry hysterically: Who wrote this? If Trump's first doctrine was written by neoconservatives and globalists – Pompeo, Bolton, Pence – then the real MAGA is now formed: Hicks, Vance, Miller. The paradigm has completely changed. This is upcoming realism – aggressive, hegemonic, but inactive realism. The thought of promoting liberal values has been rejected erstwhile and for all.
America becomes a concrete, clearly defined military-political power with apparent interests that will definitely defend in its hemisphere. Whoever gets in her way will be in trouble. But we no longer talk about liberalism, democracy and human rights. America First — Period. Objectively, the multi-polar world, which our president spoke of in his speech in Munich, rejecting Western claims to universalism and globalism, is now actually announced by Trump himself. Another question is, will his successor, specified as Vance, be able to take this course in the 80-year-old Trump? How about the neoconservatives come back? So far it is simply a declaration of war – not to us, but to the global liberal-globalist elite.
If we are talking about Ukraine, now comes thesis that Trump is dissatisfied that Zelenski does not read his peace plan. Trump's boy even admits that, against the background of all corruption stories, America can completely halt participating in the Ukrainian conflict in the coming months. How realistic is that?
– The plan that now promotes Trump is precisely what can suit us. We explained this very clearly to him: what is acceptable to us and what we absolutely cannot deal with. However, what we explained to him and what he seems to accept will inactive not be our real victory. That, unfortunately, is another compromise. This is not a failure – in no way – but it is not a triumph in the full, deep sense of the word. This can be called a success, it can be called the humiliation of the West, surely a individual and final defeat of Zelenski – but in no case is the end of Ukraine as a project, and surely not the end of the West as a civilizational force.
Trump understood that perfectly. He understood the most important: if he truly wants to save Ukraine – that is, to save the anti-Russian, rusophobic bridgehead that has been built against us for so many years – he must immediately accept our proposals. For globalists, Europeans and, of course, Zelenski himself, this will be a serious, painful failure. But that is not the case for Ukraine itself. Ukraine will be saved. And she was saved in the very form in which she was created: as anti-Russian. And Trump is the 1 who saves her by sacrificing Zelenski and a full group of European idiots who inactive can't believe what's happening.
If Trump, doing everything in his power, simply withdrew from the conflict and left him at the mercy of Europe and Ukraine – which, by the way, he repeatedly suggested and even spoke openly – would be a truly perfect option for us. Yes, we would inactive gotta fight, possibly long and hard enough, but then we would have a real chance at a real, complete, irreversible victory. And any ceasefire that we can conclude right now is just a temporary break and for a very short time. Neither Ukraine, nor the European Union nor the United States will face this truce in the future as shortly as they feel that they have the least chance to break it.
If Trump decides on Venezuela's affairs and we make alliance relations with Venezuela, how should Russia respond to this?
That's a tough question. On the 1 hand, we have a truly allied relation with Venezuela, and if we were stronger, we would gotta full engage in this conflict on Maduro's side against American aggression. Unfortunately, however, we are not prepared for this: all our forces are completely trapped by the Ukrainian War – as in Syria, as in Iran. After the victory, I'm certain we'll join in. And now, unfortunately, we're paralyzed.
Let's start this part of the conversation with a message by our peculiar representative, the Russian president Kirila Dmitriev. He said that the best diplomats of the European Union are now in panic. So he commented on the news from Poland that Dmitriew himself and American businessman Elon Musk allegedly decided to divide Europe. What is the reason for this discussion about the division of Europe now? Why did Musk become more active? He practically disappeared from public space for a while, and now he has resumed his polemic with the European Union on freedom of speech, European law. Where does all this lead?
– In fact, here, as in adopting the fresh doctrine of national security, as in negotiations concerning Ukraine, we registry the same general movement – a strong oscillatory hesitation towards a return to the first MEGA project. due to the fact that erstwhile Trump came to power, he fundamentally announced a complete reset of all global architecture, and MAGA projects were actually launched. And then he left very seriously and very far away. For almost a year – eight, 9 months – he dealt with completely different things: he hid Epstein's list, came out from the gigantic, abruptly revealed force of the Israeli lobby on American politics, betrayed his loyal companions. I mean, in a way, she stopped being with MAGA. He left the MAGA at a very long distance. But it all started precisely the same way it starts now. And now he returns – Trump returns, and consequently Musk returns.
Because Musk clearly received a green light on the break-up of the European Union. In the case of the European Union, we are talking about "the best diplomats" who are ultra-globalists, absolute, incompatible with Trump's enemies, the most fierce opponents of his course, his ideas, his views on the planet and society. Already last winter, last January, almost a year ago, Musk started this campaign: against Starmer, supporting AfD, against Macron. In fact, Twitter – its network banned in the Russian Federation – became a platform that consolidated populist opposition in all European country, raising it in the same way as Soros utilized to rise globalists, but only on a mirrored, other side. Now Musk simply repeated the same tactics, but vice versa. And he started doing this a year ago: he supported AfD, Starmer's opponents in the UK, Marine Le Pen, Meloni – all who opposed the European Union, the European establishment, European populism, if you can say so.
And then Musk himself was suspended at work at DOGE, the agency due to the efficiency and convenience of the state's action. In general, he divided up with Trump, and in parallel, Trump himself dealt with completely different cases, which caused only criticism from Musk. But Musk stopped. He started criticizing Trump, then took a break. And he waited for the minute erstwhile the fluctuations of Trumpism would enter the MEGA road again. I mean, we're going back to MAGA. We started today's program: in America, we see Trump returning to the first plan, to Plan A, to the MEGA plan. And, of course, Musk is immediately actively active in this process and continues to destruct the European Union.
It's much more serious this time. The second MEGA approach to dismantling the European Union, in my opinion, will be much more decisive and coherent. This is confirmed by the fresh national safety strategy and by the behaviour of the European Union in the Ukrainian crisis, which has constantly thwarted Trump's plans to save Ukraine. Now all the circumstances have just appeared to deal with the demolition of the European Union. Nobody's hiding anything anymore. Musk openly says: Let us destruct the European Union. He has all reason: he is simply a supporter of a conservative-populist high-tech task that liberals in power simply prevent life and breathing.
I believe that America itself, Trump and his squad of Trumpists, where MAGA begins to appear from the coma and plays an increasingly crucial role, have truly begun to break up the European Union. All you gotta do is applaud and, if possible, push what is falling. If we had the strength and the leverage to influence the European Union, I am certain that on both sides we could simply push these wonderful "best European diplomats" into oblivion. due to the fact that you can't come up with something more disgusting, malicious, aggressive, cynical, sneaky, toxic, rotting distant from the inside and spreading this rot to the remainder of humanity than the present European Union.
And the punishment that company X received under the fresh European Union law was just a pretext for Musk to start campaigning again against Europe. Everything happened precisely to Trump's approval due to the fact that it coincided with the publication of a fresh strategy.
– This is just a pretext, but it fits perfectly into the general fluctuation of the American course – from MAGA to neoconservatives and back to MAGA. A year ago, erstwhile we set ourselves up to closely monitor these fluctuations in American politics in our escalation programme, we described very accurately the logic of creating a fresh Trump regime: it will constantly fluctuate between MAGA, approaching the MEGA task – the order of large powers – and moving distant from it. Of course, I did not imagine that he would go so far, so shamefully and for so long, distracting all his closest followers. But Trump is simply a truly unpredictable person. With the same ease with which he dispersed them, he folded them back. Just like he told everyone not to, and now he let everyone. The amplitude of these oscillations turned out to be completely different from what we predicted erstwhile building hypotheses, but this is the essence of the process.
And now I'm certain Musk utilized this punishment as an excuse to get back into the real business. Trump gave him silent approval to do so and gradually renew their relationship. He was fined over $100 million, but in the first hours after this X, his network banned in the Russian Federation, advanced to the first place in terms of the number of hits in all EU countries. That means he's already won. This has shown the actual attitude of Europeans towards their governments, in fact a silent voice in favour or against the European Union. Today, no 1 supports the European Union, but the European allies themselves, but this Brussels crew, an global gathering of globalist maniacs and Starmer, who joined them and is besides an absolute maniac. These maniacs are now feverishly trying to suppress any opposition in Europe. A meme is now circulating: Starmer’s photograph with the signature “We have full freedom of speech. Anyone who challenges this will be arrested immediately.” This is more or little the general state of Europeans today. And since X is not censored by them, they are trying to annihilate this oasis of freedom. But behind Musk and his net lies the power of the United States, and now Trump openly supported Musk. Hicks supported, Vance supported. They said censorship of freedom of speech was unprecedented. In fact, it is simply a casus belli, an excuse for war, for a direct diplomatic and political conflict between the United States and the European Union. I think it's truly serious this time. Of course, it cannot be excluded that Trump will retreat from his MEGA strategy again.
However, we are now witnessing a new, powerful return to MAGA. Everything goes according to the script. Both the European Union and the United States, the United States as a whole, are moving in this direction. Of course, the Democrats, liberals and globalists have a very different opinion. They're in a panic, in real fear. I read McFaul's comments, 1 of the most dangerous globalists and architects of politics towards Russia and Ukraine: these are just terrorist, extremist calls to overthrow the government in Russia, change the government and so on. The erstwhile ambassador, Democrat, globalist – is simply hysterical: alternatively of fighting Russia and China, we are at war with our major allies in Europe! Panic is complete – both in Europe and among American globalists.
This is the wave we're on now. And we could enjoy everything that happens without looking back, if not for 1 highly problematic minute for us – a peace plan for Ukraine that promotes Trump. He doesn't do it from injury, he just has his own program, his own imagination of the world. He truly removed Russia from the list of major enemies and hatred objects. We are not fundamentally crucial to him, he has different priorities. This is where it is radically contrary to the European Union, which is, on the contrary, openly preparing for war with us. It turns out that in the camp there was a real division between our opponents – let's say carefully – and the enemies. And if we have adequate tools and strength to participate actively in this process, I am convinced that the collapse of the European Union and its collapse should become our main task of abroad policy towards Europe. due to the fact that the humiliations we received from the European Union – not from the European nations, but through this Brussels construction – cannot be forgiven. They will fight us, finance us, arm us, and morally and politically support our enemies. He's our enemy. We must name things by name: the European Union is an enemy. It must be destroyed.
And we see that the United States present – they are supporters of the MAGA Trump – truly began to destruct it. Everyone shouted immediately: Look, they're with Putin! I think they think of us better than we truly are. If we had specified opportunities – silent representatives in all the capitals of Europe, giving cookies, supporting everyone who is willing to destruct this structure – we could reconstruct perfect relations with a fresh Europe: a Europe of Nations, a Europe of tradition, a actual European democracy with its culture and interests. It is not the fact that it will immediately become our automatic friend – I very much uncertainty it – but we must destruct the pathology of the European Union. The European Union must be destroyed.
Behind: geopolitika.ru
