Carlson -Putin. Intelligence Translation

Russian Federation president Vladimir Putin in over a two-hour conversation with Tucker Carlson, writer and video platform founder “Tucker Carlson Network . The conversation took place on 9 February 2024 in the Kremlin in Moscow. Below is the transcript of the interview, published by the press service of the president of FR Интервью Такеру Карлсону • Президент России (kremlin.ru) Interview to Tucker Carlson • president of Russia (kremlin.ru)

Middle title: Zofia Bąbczyńska-Jelonek

== sync, corrected by elderman ==

Tucker Carlson: Mr President, thank you very much. On 24 February 2022, erstwhile the conflict in Ukraine began, you turned to your country and nation. You said that you did this due to the fact that you concluded that with NATO's help, the United States could launch a surprise attack, an attack on your country. To Americans, it's paranoid.

Why do you think that America could hit Russia unexpectedly? How did you come to that conclusion?

Vladimir Putin: It's not that America is going to surprise Russia, I didn't say that. Are we on a talk show, or are we having a serious conversation?

Tucker Carlson: This is simply a large quote, thank you. We're having a serious conversation.

The emergence of Ukraine according to Putin

W. Putin: From what I understand, you have a basic historical education, don't you?

T. Carlson: Yeah.

W. Putin: In that case, I would like to present any historical background – only 30 seconds or a minute. Do you mind?

T. Carlson: Of course – no, please.

W. Putin: perceive to how our relation with Ukraine began, where Ukraine came from. The Russian state was created as a centralised state. For the year of the establishment of the Russian state – 862 is believed to be the year of the fresh Kingdom – there is specified a city of Novogród in the north-western part of the country – they invited Duke Rurick of Scandinavia, of the home of Waregs, to the Prince's throne. It was 862. In 1862, Russia celebrated the 1000th anniversary of its statehood, and in Novgorod stands a monument dedicated to the 1000th anniversary of the country.

In 882, the successor of Rurick, Duke of Oleg, who in fact served as regent for the insignificant boy of Rurick, arrived in Kiev. The tube died at that time. Prince Oleg dismissed 2 brothers who seemingly were erstwhile members of the Ruric team, and thus Russia began to develop, having 2 centres: Kiev and Novgorod.

Another very crucial date in Russia's past is 988. It is the Baptism of Russia, erstwhile Prince Vladimir, the great-grandson of Rurick, baptized Russia and adopted Orthodoxy – east Christianity. Since then, the centralised Russian state has become stronger.

Why do we say that? 1 territory, uniform economical ties, 1 language and after the baptism of Russia – 1 religion and the power of the prince. This is how the centralised Russian state began to form.

But for various reasons, after the introduction of succession – besides in ancient times, in the mediate Ages – by Jarosław the Wise, a small later, after his death – the succession was complicated.

It was not passed straight from father to eldest son, but from the late prince to his brother, and then sons on various lines.

All this led to the fragmentation of Russia, a united state that began to form as one. There's nothing peculiar about it, the same thing happened in Europe. But the fragmented Russian state became an easy prey of the empire that erstwhile created Genghis-chan. His successor Chan Batu, came with the army to Russia, plundered almost all cities, ravaged them. The confederate part where Kiev was, by the way, besides any another cities – they just lost their independence, while northern cities retained part of their sovereignty. The tribute was paid to the Horde, but part of sovereignty was preserved.

And then, the confederate part of Russian lands, including Kiev, began gradually reaching for another "magnets" – to the center that was built in Europe. It was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. It was even called Lithuanian-Russian due to the fact that the Russians constituted a large part of this country. They spoke Old Russian, they were Orthodox.

But then there was the unification – the Union of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland. A fewer years later another Union was signed, already in the spiritual sphere, and any Orthodox priests submitted to the authority of the pope. In this way these lands were part of the Polish-Lithuanian state.

But Poles spent decades dealing with the colonization of this part of the population: they introduced their language there, started to introduce the thought that it was not entirely Russians, that due to the fact that they live close the country, they are Ukrainians. Originally, the word “Ukrainian” meant that a individual lives on the outskirts of the state, “near the country ” or, in fact, in border service. This did not mean any peculiar cultural group.

So Poles, in all respect, Polishized these lands and fundamentally treated this part of Russian lands rather harshly, if not brutally. All of this led to this part of the Russian lands fighting for their rights. And they wrote letters to Warsaw, demanding that they respect their rights to send here, including Kiev, people...

T. Carlson: erstwhile was that, what years?

W. Putin: It was in the 13th century. Now, I'm gonna tell you what happened next and I'm gonna give you dates so there's no confusion. In 1654, or a small earlier even, people who controlled power in this part of the Russian lands turned to Warsaw, I repeat – with the request that people of Russian origin and Orthodox religion be sent to them. And erstwhile Warsaw, in fact, did not respond to them and practically rejected these demands – they began to address Moscow so that Moscow would take them to herself. So you don't think I'm up to something, I'll give you those papers...

T. Carlson: I don't think you're making anything up, no.

W. Putin: And yet I'll give it to you. These are files from the archive, copies. These are the letters of Bogdan Chmielnicki, a man who then controlled power in this part of the Russian lands and which we now call Ukraine. He wrote to Warsaw demanding compliance with their rights, and after refusing – he began writing letters to Moscow asking to be taken under the strong hand of the Moscow Tsar. Here [in the folder] are copies of these documents. I'll leave it to you to remember well. There is simply a translation into Russian and then translated into English.

Russia refused to accept them immediately due to the fact that it assumed that the war with Poland would begin. Nevertheless, in 1654 the Earth Seym – which was a typical body of the power of the Old Russian state – decided: this part of the Old Russian lands was part of the Moscow Kingdom.

As expected, the war with Poland began. It lasted 13 years, then a truce. In total, after this act of 1654 was concluded, after 32 years, in my opinion, there was a peace with Poland, an “eternal peace”, as was said at the time. And these lands, the full left coast of Dnieper, including Kiev, departed to Russia, and the full right coast of Dnieper remained in Poland.

Then, in the time of Catherine II, Russia regained all its historical lands, including the South and the West. This all continued until the revolution [October 1917 – ed.]. And before planet War I, utilizing these ideas of Ukrainianization, the Austrian General Staff very actively began to advance the thought of Ukraine and Ukrainianization. It's clear why? due to the fact that on the eve of the planet war, of course, there was a desire to weaken a possible opponent, there was a desire to make favorable conditions in the border belt. And this idea, which was born in Poland once, that people surviving in this territory are not precisely Russians, are allegedly a peculiar cultural group, Ukrainians – began to be promoted by the Austrian General Staff.

There were besides theorists of Ukrainian independence, who already in the 19th century spoke about the request for Ukrainian independence. True, all these "pilarities" of Ukrainian independency said that she should have a very good relation with Russia, but nevertheless – they insisted. Nevertheless, after the 1917 Revolution, the Bolsheviks tried to reconstruct statehood. A civilian war broke out, including [war] with Poland. In 1921 a peace was signed with Poland, under which the western part, on the right bank of Dniepr, returned to Poland again.

In 1939, after Poland worked with Hitler, and Poland collaborated with Hitler, Hitler proposed (all papers we have in the archives – the conclusion of peace with Poland, the treaty on relationship and alliance) or, in fact, demanded that Poland hand over to Germany the alleged Gdańsk corridor, which combined most of Germany with Koenigsberg (Kinger) and East Prussia. After planet War I, this part of the territory was transferred to Poland, and alternatively of Danzing, the city of Gdańsk was created. Hitler demanded their (Poles) peaceful devotion – Poles refused. Nevertheless, they collaborated with Hitler and shared in the division of Czechoslovakia.

T. Carlson: May I ask? You say that part of Ukraine is truly Russian land for hundreds of years. So why didn't you just take them erstwhile you became president 24 years ago? You besides had a gun. Why did you wait so long?

W. Putin: I'll be right back. I'm almost done with this historical information. She may be boring, but she explains a lot.

T. Carlson: It's not boring, no.

W. Putin: Great. I'm so glad you appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Thus, before the Second planet War, Poland cooperated with Germany, refused to comply with Hitler's demands, and although it participated with Hitler in the division of Czechoslovakia, it did not surrender the corridor to Gdańsk. It was Poles who played and forced Hitler to start planet War II from them. Why did the war start on September 1, 1939 – just with Poland? due to the fact that she was reluctant to Hitler. So there was nothing left for him to implement, like starting it from Poland.

Incidentally, the russian Union, I read the archive documents, acted very honestly. The russian Union asked Poland for approval to carry out [through Polish lands – ed.] its troops to aid Czechoslovakia. But the mouth of the then minister of abroad affairs of Poland said that even if russian aircraft fly towards Czechoslovakia through the territory of Poland, they will be shot down over the territory of Poland. Whatever. But most importantly, the war began and now Poland itself has become a victim of the policy which it has pursued towards Czechoslovakia. due to the fact that according to the well-known Ribbentrop-Molotov protocols, any of its territories left for Russia, including Western Ukraine. Russia [the then existing – ed.] under the name of the russian Union, thus returned to its historical territory.

After winning the large Patriotic War, as we call planet War II, all these territories were yet assigned to Russia, the russian Union. As part of the compensation, Poland should be presumed to have received the western, originally German territories – the east part of Germany. any of these lands are now western parts of Poland. And, of course, Poland has again been restored to the Baltic Sea, Gdansk has been restored, which began to be called in Polish. That's how it came about.

With the emergence of the russian Union, as early as 1922, the Bolsheviks began to make the USSR and then created russian Ukraine, which had not existed at all so far.

T. Carlson: All right.

W. Putin: At the same time, Stalin insisted that those republics that formed should be autonomous entities, but for any reason the founder of the russian state, Lenin, insisted that they have the right to leave the russian Union. And, besides for incomprehensible reasons, he endowed the emerging russian Ukraine with lands, with people surviving in these territories. Even if they have never been called Ukraine before, for any reason during the formation of the [ZSRR - ed.] all of this has been "wrought" into the Ukrainian SRR. Including the full Black Sea, which was obtained during the time of Catherine II and actually had no historical connection with Ukraine.

If we remember and return to 1654, erstwhile these territories returned to the Russian Empire, they were 3 or 4 modern regions of Ukraine, there was no close the Black Sea. There's just nothing to talk about.

T. Carlson: In 1654?

W. Putin: Yes, exactly.

T. Carlson: You have encyclopedic knowledge... But why didn't you talk about it the first 22 years of your presidency?

W. Putin: And so russian Ukraine received a immense number of territories that never had anything to do with it, especially the Black Sea. Once, erstwhile Russia received them as a consequence of the Russian-Turkish wars, they were called fresh Russia. But it's not important. It is crucial that Lenin, the founder of the russian state, created Ukraine just like this. And so for many decades the Ukrainian SRR developed in the USSR, and the Bolsheviks, besides for unknown reasons, became active in Ukrainianization. Not only due to the fact that there were immigrants from Ukraine in the leadership of the russian Union, but in general there was specified a policy – it was called “corienisation” [1]. This active Ukraine and another republics. National languages, national cultures have been introduced, which is not truly bad. But this is how russian Ukraine was created.

After planet War II, Ukraine received not only part of Polish territories before the war. present Western Ukraine is part of Hungarian and Romanian territories. any territories were taken from Romania and Hungary, and these territories became part of russian Ukraine and are inactive there. That is why we have all reason to say that, of course, Ukraine is in a sense an artificial state created by Stalin's will.

T. Carlson: Do you think Hungary has the right to take its land? And another nations can besides take their lands and bring Ukraine back to the borders of 1654?

W. Putin: I don't know how close to 1654. Stalin's reign is called the Stalinist regime, everyone says there have been many violations of human rights, violations of the rights of another countries. In this sense it is rather possible, of course, if we are not talking about that they have the right to do so – to regain these lands, it is understandable...

T. Carlson: Did you tell Orban that you could recover any of Ukraine's lands?

W. Putin: I never said that. Never, not once. He and I haven't even talked about it. But I know for a fact that the Hungarians who live there, of course, want to return to their historical homeland.

What's more, I'm going to tell you a very interesting communicative now is simply a very individual story. Somewhere in the early '80s. By car, from Leningrad at the time, from Petersburg, I went simply on a journey around the russian Union – via Kiev. I drove into Kiev and then went to Western Ukraine. I drove into the city, called Bieriovo, and there all the names of cities, towns are in Russian and in a language that is incomprehensible to me – Hungarian. Russian and Hungarian. Not Ukrainian – Russian and Hungarian.

I'm driving through any village, there are men in black three-piece suits and black hats close their houses. I said, are they artists? They tell me no, they're not artists, they're Hungarians. I said, what are they doing here? It's their land, they live here. All names [in the village – are in Hungarian – ed.]. In russian times, in the 1980s. They keep Hungarian, names, all national costumes. They are Hungarians and feel like Hungarians. And of course, now that there's a breach...

USA, NATO and Russia

T. Carlson: Yeah, I think a lot's going on. Most likely many countries are dissatisfied with border changes during the 20th century and earlier. But the thing is, you didn't say that before February 2022. And you said that you felt physically threatened by NATO, especially the atomic threat, and that led you to act. Do I realize you correctly?

W. Putin: I realize that my long dialogues most likely do not belong to the genre of interviews. So at first I asked you if we'd have a serious conversation or a show? You said a serious conversation. So don't insult me.

We reached the point where russian Ukraine was created. Then it was 1991- the collapse of the russian Union. And everything Ukraine received as a gift from Russia, “from the barbaric arm”, she took with her.

I'm approaching a very crucial point today. Finally, this collapse of the russian Union was actually initiated by Russia. I don't know what Russia was doing then, but I fishy there were a fewer reasons, they thought everything would be okay.

Firstly, I think that the Russian authorities were based on the fundamental foundations of relations between Russia and Ukraine. In fact, it's a common language, where more than 90 percent of people talk Russian; it's kinship bonds, there all 3rd has any kinships, friendships; it's a common culture; it's a common history; finally, a common religion; a common presence within a single state over centuries; the economy is very closely linked – all of this is so fundamental. All of this is at the heart of the inevitability of our good relationship.

Secondly, it is very crucial that you, as an American citizen and your viewers, besides hear about this: the erstwhile Russian leadership was due to the fact that the russian Union ceased to exist, there is no longer an ideological dividing line. Russia voluntarily and with initiative even went to the dissolution of the russian Union, and I presume it will be understood by the alleged "civilized West" as a proposal for cooperation and alliance. This is what Russia expected from both the United States and the alleged collective West as a whole.

There were smart people, including Germany. Egon Bar was an crucial politician of the Social Democratic Party, who insisted personally in talks with russian leadership before the collapse of the russian Union, saying that a fresh safety strategy should be created in Europe. We must aid unite Germany, but make a fresh strategy in which the United States, Canada, Russia and another countries of Central Europe will enter. But NATO doesn't gotta spread. He said that if NATO spreads, everything would be the same as in the Cold War, only closer to the borders of Russia. That's all. He was a wise old man. Nobody listened to him. Moreover, he was upset – besides in the archives we have this conversation – and he said that if, you will not perceive to me, I will never come to Moscow again. He was furious with russian leadership. He was right, everything happened just like he said.

T. Carlson: Yes, of course, his words have come true, you have mentioned it many times, and I think it's absolutely fair. Many in the United States besides believed that relations between Russia and the United States would be average after the collapse of the russian Union. But it did happen the another way around. But you never explained why you think it happened, why it happened. The West may be afraid of strong Russia, but the West is not afraid of strong China.

W. Putin: The West is afraid of stronger China than strong Russia, due to the fact that Russia has 150 million people, and China has 1 and a half billion people, and the Chinese economy is developing with seven-mile steps – over 5 percent per year – there was even more. And this is good adequate for China. Bismarck erstwhile said: the most crucial is potential. China's possible is huge, the world's first economy in terms of purchasing power parity, in terms of the size of the economy. They've already overtaken the United States, and it's a long time ago, and the pace is rising.

We're not gonna tell who's afraid of who now. We will not, I say, reason with specified categories. But let us talk about that after 1991, erstwhile Russia expected to be admitted to the brotherly household of “civilized nations”. Nothing like that happened. You tricked us. erstwhile I say ‘you’, of course, I do not mean you personally, but the United States. You promised that there would be no NATO expansion to the east, but it happened 5 times, there were 5 waves of expansion. We've all tolerated, we've all urged, we've said no, we're modern now, as they say, bourgeois, we have a marketplace economy, there's no Communist organization power, let's negotiate. What's more, I was besides talking about it in public.

Now we take Jelcin's time – there was a minute erstwhile "the grey cat ran". Before that, Yeltsyn traveled to the United States, remember, spoke in legislature and spoke wonderful words: “God bless America”. He said everything. These were signals: “Let us in.”

Not since the events in Yugoslavia started... Until then, Jelcin had been praised – praised. As shortly as the events in Yugoslavia began and erstwhile he raised his voice behind the Serbs, and we couldn't not rise our voices for the Serbs, in their defense... I get it, there were complicated trials, I get it. But Russia could not refrain from raising votes for the Serbs due to the fact that the Serbs are besides a special, close nation, Orthodox culture and so on. Well, specified a suffering nation for generations. Well, it doesn't matter, but the crucial thing is that Jelcin expressed his support.

What did the United States do? In violation of global law, the charters of the United Nations began bombing Belgrade.

The United States released this genie from the bottle. Moreover, erstwhile Russia opposed and expressed its outrage, what was said? The United Nations Charter, global law is out of date. Now everyone refers to global law, but then they start saying that everything is obsolete, you gotta change everything.

Indeed, something needs to be changed due to the fact that the balance of strength has changed, it is true, but not in this way. Yes, by the way, it was immediately started to throw mud at Jelcin, indicating that he was an alcoholic, that he did not understand, he did not understand. He understood everything and understood everything, I assure you.

Good. I became president in 2000. I thought: OK, everything, the Yugoslav subject has passed, we gotta effort to reconstruct relations, yet open the door that Russia tried to go through. And what's more, I spoke about it publicly, and I can say it again: in a gathering here in the Kremlin with Bill Clinton who's stepping out of power – here next door, in a neighboring area – I told him, I asked him a question: listen, Bill, and how do you think if Russia had asked a question about joining NATO, do you think it's possible? abruptly he said, "You know, it's interesting, I think it is. And in the evening, erstwhile we met him for dinner, he says, "You know, I talked to mine, with my band – no, it's impossible now. You can ask him, I think erstwhile you hear our interview – he will confirm. I never would have said anything like that if I hadn't.

Well, it's not possible now.

T. CarlsonWere you honest then? Would you join NATO?
W. Putin: Look, I asked you, is it possible or not? And I received a reply: No. If I was dishonest in my desire to establish the position of management...
T. CarlsonIf he said yes, would you join NATO?
W. Putin: If he had said yes, the process of rapprochement would have begun, and as a last hotel this could have happened if we had seen the sincere desire of partners to do so. But it's not over. Well, no, so no, all right, all right.
T. Carlson: Why do you think? What are the motivations? I feel like you're bitter about this, I get it. But why do you think the West pushed you so far? Why the hostility? Why has the relation not been improved? What were your motives?

W. Putin: You said I was feeling bitter about the answer. No, it's not bitter, it's just a message of fact. We are not husband and wife, bitterness, resentment – these are not substances that happen in specified cases. We just realized they're not expecting us there, that's all. Good, good. But let's build relationships another way, let's look for a common ground. Why have we received specified a negative response? That's what you gotta ask your superiors. I can only guess why: besides large a country with its own opinions and so on. And the United States? I've seen things in NATO solved...

Let me give another example concerning Ukraine. U.S. leadership has "pressed" – and all NATO members vote obediently, even if they don't like something. Now I will tell you what happened to Ukraine in 2008, although this is discussed, I will tell you nothing new.

However, after that, we tried to build relationships in different ways. For example, any events took place in the mediate East, Iraq. Very gently, we were building a peaceful relation with the States.

I have asked many times whether the United States does not support separatistism or terrorism in the North Caucasus. They inactive did. I did. Political support, information support, financial support and even military support came from the United States and their satellites in relation to terrorist formation in the Caucasus.

Once with my colleague, including the president of the United States, I raised this issue. He says to me, "Can't this be it, you got proof?" I say yes. I was ready for this conversation, and I gave him the evidence. He looked and you know what he said? I'm sorry, but it was, and I quote, he said, "Well, I'm gonna kick their ass. We waited, we waited for an answer – there was no answer.

I'm talking to manager FSB: You compose this to the CIA, ask for a consequence of a conversation with the president? He wrote one, two, then got an answer. It's in the archive. With the CIA, the answer came: We worked with the opposition in Russia; we think it is right and we will proceed to work with the opposition. Funny. All right. We realized there would be no conversation.

T. Carlson: Opposition against you?

W. Putin: Of course, in this case it was about separatists, terrorists who fought us in the Caucasus. That's it. They called it opposition. That's the second point.
The 3rd point, very important, is the minute of the creation of the American rocket defence system, the beginning. For a long time, we have urged the United States not to do so. Moreover, after Bush Jr's father, Bush senior, invited me to visit the ocean, had a very serious conversation with president Bush, his team. I have proposed that the United States, Russia and Europe together form a rocket defence strategy which, we believe, unilaterally threatens our security, even though the United States has officially declared that it is being created against Iran's rocket threats. This besides justified the creation of ABM. I offered them 3 jobs – Russia, USA, Europe. They said it was very interesting. I was asked: Are you serious? I said absolutely.
T. Carlson: erstwhile was that, what year?

W. Putin: I don't remember. It's easy to find on the net erstwhile I was in the US at Bush's invitation. I was told, "This is very interesting. I say: Imagine that we are jointly addressing specified a global strategical safety challenge. The planet will change. We will most likely have disputes, most likely economical and even political, but we will radically change the world. He tells me (in reply): Yes. I was asked: Are you serious? And they said, "Of course. We request to think about what I'm saying: Please.

Then came Secretary of defence Gates, erstwhile CIA manager and Secretary of State Rice. Here, at this table. See this table? They sat on this side. On the another hand, I, Minister of abroad Affairs, Minister of Defence of Russia. They told me, "Yes, we thought, we agree." I say thank God, great. “But with a fewer exceptions”.

T. Carlson: Have you told us twice how American presidents made decisions and then their teams derailed them?

W. PutinThat's it. Of course, we were sent further. I won't give you the details, due to the fact that I think that's not true, after all, it was a confidential conversation. But the fact that our proposal has been rejected remains a fact.

I said, "Look, then we'll be forced to take revenge. We're going to make shock systems that will definitely defeat the ABM system. The answer was, we don't do them against you, and you do whatever you want, we presume it's not against us, not against the US. I say good. Let's go. And we've created hypersonic and intercontinental systems, and we're inactive developing them. We are now ahead of creating hypersonic percussion systems for all: the United States and another countries – we improve them all day.

But we didn't do it, we offered to take the another way, but we were pushed away.

Now on the NATO expansion to the east. Well, they promised that there would be no NATO [extended—ed.] east, the full side east, as we were told. And then what? They said, "Well, they didn't fix it on paper, so we'll expand." 5 extensions, including the Baltic countries and the full east Europe, and so on.

Now, I'm going to go to the most crucial part: we've reached Ukraine. In 2008, at the Bucharest summit, they declared that the door to Ukraine and Georgia in NATO was open.

Now on how decisions are made. Germany, France were against it, as were any another European countries. But then as it turned out, president Bush, and he's specified a tough guy, a tough politician, as they told me later: he pushed us and we had to agree. It's funny, as simple as kindergarten. Where are the guarantees? What kind of kindergarten are these people, who are they? You see, "they clicked," they agreed. And then they say, you know, Ukraine won't be in NATO. I say, I don't know; I know you agreed in 2008 and why won't you agree in the future? Well, they “clicked” on us. I say, "Why don't they click you tomorrow," and you'll say yes again. Well, that's bullshit. Who to talk to, just – I don't understand. We're ready to talk. But who? Where are the guarantees? No...

This means that they began to make activities in Ukraine. Whatever it was. I told a communicative about how this territory developed, what relations were with Russia. erstwhile in a while, twice or three, she always had any connection to Russia. And in elections already in independent, sovereign Ukraine, which gained independency as a consequence of the Declaration of Independence, and by the way – it says that Ukraine is simply a neutral state, – in 2008, abruptly the doors or gates to NATO opened to it. Here's an interesting movie! We didn't date like this. Thus, all presidents who came to power in Ukraine were based on an electorate that someway treated Russia well. This is southeast Ukraine, it's a large number of people. And to "kill" this electorate, which was affirmative for Russia, was very difficult.

Viktor Yanukovych came to power, and erstwhile he first won before president Kuczma - they organized a 3rd round, which is not foreseen in the Constitution of Ukraine. This is simply a coup. Imagine, due to the fact that individual didn't like it in the US!

T. Carlson: In 2014?

W. Putin: No, before that. No, it wasn't – it was. After president Kuczmy, Viktor Yanukovych won the election. But his opponents did not recognise this victory, the US supported the opposition and appointed a 3rd round. What is this? It's a coup. The U.S. supported him and came to power as a consequence of the 3rd round... imagine that in the U.S. individual didn't like something - so they organized a 3rd circular that is not foreseen in the U.S. Constitution. But inactive there [in Ukraine] they did it. OK, Victor Yushchenko came to power, who was considered pro-Western politics. Okay, but we had a relation with him, he came to Moscow with visits, we went to Kiev. And I rode too. We met in an informal atmosphere. West like West, they commented. Let them comment, but people work. The situation should make internally, in independent Ukraine itself. After he ruled the country, the situation deteriorated and Viktor Yanukovych came to power.

He may not have been the best president and politician, I don't know, I don't want to issue grades, but there has been a question of association with the European Union. But we have always been very loyal to this: delight unite. But erstwhile we read this association treaty, it turned out to be a problem for us, due to the fact that we have a free trade region with Ukraine, open customs borders, and Ukraine had to open its borders to Europe through this – and affect all of our market.

We said no, it won't work, then we'll close our borders with Ukraine, customs boundaries. Yanukovych began to number how much Ukraine would win and how much it would lose and announced to its contractors in Europe: I gotta think before signing. As shortly as he said, the destructive actions of the opposition, supported by the West, began, and everything led to Majdan and to a coup d'état in Ukraine.

T. Carlson: So Ukraine traded more with Russia than with the European Union?

W. Putin: Of course. It's not even about the size of the trade, but more than that. It's about the cooperative unions on which the full Ukrainian economy stood. Cooperation links between companies have been powerfully linked since the russian Union. There, 1 company produced components for final assembly, both in Russia and Ukraine and vice versa. There were very close ties.

They made a coup, although I will not discuss it in item now, to us from the United States, I find it incorrect, but nevertheless it is said: you will calm Yanukovych there, and we will calm the opposition; let everything go the way of a political solution. We said okay, we agree, let's do it. Yanukovych did not apply, as requested by the Americans, nor the armed forces, nor the police. The armed opposition in Kiev carried out a coup. How do you mean? Who are you? – I wanted to ask the then United States leadership.

T. Carlson: With who?

W. Putin: With CIA support, of course. An organization where I realize you erstwhile wanted to work. possibly thank God you weren't chosen. Although it is simply a serious organization, I understand, it is my erstwhile colleagues, in the sense that I have worked on the first Chief Board of Intelligence of the russian Union. They were always our opponents. Work is work.

Technically they did everything right, they achieved what they wanted – they changed power. But from a political point of view, this is simply a immense mistake. Here, of course, political leadership was underdeveloped. The political leadership had to see where this was going.

In 2008, Ukraine opened its NATO door. In 2014, a coup was carried out, while those who did not recognise the coup, and this was a coup, began to chase, posed a threat to the Crimea, which forced us to take it under our protection. The war in Donbasa began in 2014, utilizing aviation and artillery against civilians. Finally, that's where it all started. There's besides a video of planes hitting Donetsk from above. They undertook 1 large-scale military operation, another, failed – they are inactive preparing. And inactive against the background of the military improvement of this territory and beginning the door to NATO.

How can we not worry about what's going on? On our part, it would be a criminal carelessness – that would be the case. It was simply the political leadership of the States that led us to hell that we couldn't cross anymore due to the fact that it destroyed Russia itself. And then we could not throw our fellow believers, in fact part of the Russian nation that was under this war machine.

T. Carlson: It was 8 years before the conflict began. And what caused this conflict erstwhile you decided that you inactive had to take that step?

W. Putin: Initially the conflict sparked – a state coup in Ukraine.

By the way, representatives of 3 European countries have arrived: Germany, Poland and France – and were guarantors of the signed treaty between the Yanukovych government and the opposition. The signatures were filed as guarantians. Nevertheless, the opposition carried out a coup, and all these countries pretended not to remember that they were the guarantors of a peaceful solution. They immediately threw him in the oven, no 1 remembers anything.

I don't know if they know anything in the US about this treaty between opposition and power and the 3 guarantors who, alternatively of bringing the full process back to political ground, but not – supported the coup! Although it didn't make any sense, believe me. Since president Yanukovych agreed with everything, he was ready for an early election in which he had no chance to win, to be honest, there was no chance. Everybody knew that.

But why the coup, why the victims? Why endanger Crimea? Why did the Donbasa operations begin? I don't realize that. This is simply a miscalculation. The CIA has committed a coup. And as I know, 1 of the Deputy Secretary of State said that they even spent a large sum, almost 5 billion [dollars]. But political mistake is enormous. Why would you do that? The same could only be done legally, without any casualties, without the initiation of military operations and without losing Crimea.

And we wouldn't lift a finger if there weren't those bloody events in Maidan, we'd never think about it.

Because we agreed that after the dissolution of the russian Union it should be just like the republics. We agreed. But we never agreed to grow NATO, the more we never agreed that Ukraine would be in NATO. We didn't agree there would be NATO bases there without talking to us. We only begged for decades: don't do it, don't do it...

What was the trigger in fresh events? Firstly, today's Ukrainian authorities stated that they would not enforce the Minsk agreements that were signed, as you know, after the events of 2014 in Minsk, where a plan for a peaceful solution was outlined in Donbasa. No, the leadership of present-day Ukraine, the abroad Minister, all another officials, and then the president himself – declared that they did not like anything in these agreements with Minsk. In another words, they're not going to perform. And the erstwhile leaders of Germany, France, said straight – in our time – a year or a year and a half ago – honestly admitting to the full planet that – yes, they signed these agreements with Minsk, but they never intended to do so. We just got played on our noses.

T. CarlsonHave you spoken to the Secretary of State, the President? possibly they were afraid to talk to you. And you told them if they continued to pump Ukraine with weapons, would you react?

W. Putin: We talked about it all the time. We have asked the leadership of the United States, European countries, to halt this process immediately, so that the Minsk agreements can be implemented. Honestly, I didn't know how to do it, but I was ready to do it. They are hard for Ukraine, there are many elements of independency for Donbas, for these territories has been provided, it is true. But I was absolutely sure, I will tell you now: I sincerely believed that if I could convince those people who live in Donbasa, then gradually, the wounds would heal. Gradually, erstwhile this part of the territory returns to economical life, to the general social environment, erstwhile pensions, social benefits are paid – all gradually, gradually increasing together. But no, no 1 wanted it, everybody just wanted to solve the problem with military force. We couldn't let that happen.

And everything happened erstwhile it was announced in Ukraine: No, we will not [do] anything. More preparations for war have begun. They started the war in 2014. Our goal is to end this war. And we didn't start it in 2022, it's an effort to end it.

T. Carlson: Do you think you managed to halt her now? Have you achieved your goals?

W. Putin: Nope. We have not yet achieved our objectives, due to the fact that 1 of the objectives is denazification. This means banning all kinds of neo-Nazi movements. This is 1 of the problems that we discussed during the negotiation process, which ended in Istanbul at the beginning of last year, but not at our initiative, due to the fact that we, in peculiar Europeans, said: it is essential to make the conditions for the final signature of the documents. My colleagues in France and Germany said: “How do you imagine they will sign the Treaty: with a weapon to the temple? We must retreat troops from Kiev." I say, “Good”. We withdrew troops from Kiev.

As shortly as we withdrew troops from Kiev, our Ukrainian negotiators immediately threw all our agreements in Istanbul and prepared for a long armed confrontation with the aid of the United States and their satellites in Europe.

This is how the situation developed. And that's what it looks like now.

Of course, all nation that's grown up believes any people there... I say it's part of the common Russian nation, they say: no, we're a separate nation. Good, good. If 1 considers himself a separate nation, he has the right to do so. But not on the basis of Nazism, Nazi ideology.

T. Carlson: Will you be satisfied with the territory you already have?

W. Putin: I'll be right there. You asked me a question about neo-Naziism and denazification.
Here the president of Ukraine came to Canada – it is well known but silenced in the West – and presented in the Canadian parliament a man who, as the president of Parliament said, fought during planet War II against the Russians. Who fought the Russians during planet War II? Hitler and his supporters. It turned out that this man served during the war in the SS, personally killed Russians, Poles and Jews. SS troops, formed from Ukrainian nationalists, did this dirty work. The president of Ukraine stood alongside the full Parliament of Canada and applauded this man. How can you imagine that? Incidentally, the president of Ukraine is simply a hebrew of nationality.

T. CarlsonWhat are you going to do about it? Hitler's been dead for 80 years, Nazi Germany no longer exists, that's true. You say you want to put out this fire of Ukrainian nationalism. How do we do that?

W. Putin: perceive to me. Your question is very subtle... and can I say what I think? Would you mind?

T. Carlson: Of course not.

W. Putin: It's a seemingly subtle question.

You say Hitler hasn't been this old in 80 years. But his case is alive. People who exterminated Jews, Russians and Poles live. And the president, present president of today's Ukraine, applauds him in the Canadian Parliament, applauds him standing up! Can we say that we have completely eradicated this ideology if what we see is happening today? That's denazification in our understanding. We request to get free of those people who leave this explanation and practice in life and effort to preserve it – that is denazification. Here's what we mean by that.

T. Carlson: All right. I surely do not advocate Nazism or neo-Nazim. But my question in practice is, you don't control the full country, and I think you want to control it. But how can you eradicate ideology, culture, feelings, past in a country you have no control over? How do we accomplish this?

W. Putin: You know, as unusual as this may seem to you, during the negotiations in Istanbul we agreed, all this in writing, that Ukraine will not be cultivated neo-Nazism, including being banned at legislative level.

Mr. Carlson, we agreed to this. It turns out that this can be done during the negotiation process. And there is nothing demeaning to Ukraine as a modern civilized state. Are you allowed to advance Nazis? No, right? That's all.

T. Carlson: Will there be negotiations? And why have there so far not been specified talks – peace talks – about resolving the conflict in Ukraine?

W. Putin: They were. There was a very advanced phase of agreeing on the positions of the complex process, and more than that, they were almost finished. But after we withdrew the troops from Kiev, I said that the another side, Ukraine, threw out all these agreements and accepted under a imagination the instructions of Western countries – European, United States – to fight Russia until the winning end.

The president of Ukraine has banned negotiations with Russia. He signed a decree prohibiting all negotiations with Russia. But how can we negociate if he forbids himself and forbids everyone? We know he has any ideas about this settlement.

But to negociate something, you gotta have a dialogue, don't you?

T. Carlson: Yes, but you won't talk to the president of Ukraine, you'll talk to the president of the United States. erstwhile was the last time you spoke to Joe Biden?

W. Putin: I don't remember talking to him. I don't remember, but you can check.

T. Carlson: Don't you remember?!

W. Putin: No, but do I gotta remember everything? I have quite a few things to do. We have interior political issues.

T. Carlson: But he's backing the war you're conducting.

W. Putin: Yes, he does, but erstwhile I spoke to him, it was before the start of a peculiar military operation, of course, and I, incidentally, told him then – I would not go into detail, I never do – but, I told him then: I think you are making a immense mistake on a historical scale, supporting everything that happens there, in Ukraine, pushing Russia away. I told him that, I told him many times, by the way. I think it will be correct – if I limit myself to that.

T. Carlson: What did he say?

W. Putin: Ask him about it. This is easy for you: you are a United States citizen, go and ask him. I can't comment on our conversation.

T. Carlson: But you haven't spoken to him since February 2022?

W. Putin: No, we didn't. But we have any contacts. By the way, do you remember erstwhile I told you about my proposal to work together on the rocket defence system?

T. Carlson: Yeah.

W. PutinYou can ask everyone, thank God, that they are alive and well. Both erstwhile president and Condoleezza [Rice] are alive and well, and Mr Gates and present-day manager of Central Intelligence Office Mr Burns – who was then an ambassador to Russia, in my opinion a very successful ambassador. They all witness these conversations. You can ask them.

The same thing now, if you're wondering what president Biden said to me, ask him. Anyway, we talked to him about it.

T. Carlson: I realize that perfectly, but from the outside, for an outside observer, it may seem that all this could translate into a situation where the full planet will be on the brink of war, possibly even a atomic attack. Why don't you call Biden and say, "Let's kind this out.

W. Putin: What to decide? It's very simple. Repeat: we have contacts on the line of different levels. I will tell you what we are saying about this and what we are bringing to the U.S. leadership: if you truly want to halt the war, you must halt the arms supply – everything will end in a fewer weeks, that's all. And then you can negociate certain conditions, but before you do – stop.

What's easier? Why should I call him? What to talk about or what to beg for? "Are you going to put specified a weapon in Ukraine? Oh, I'm scared, I'm scared, delight don't deliver."

Talk about what?

T. Carlson: Do you think NATO is afraid that all of this could turn into a global war or even a atomic conflict?

W. Putin: Anyway, that's what they say about it and effort to intimidate their population with the alleged Russian threat. It's obvious. And reasoning people alternatively than average people, but reasoning people, analysts, those who deal with real politics, just intelligent people – they are perfectly aware that it is simply a fake (a lie) – the Russian threat is growing.

T. Carlson: Are you referring to the threat of Russian invasion, specified as Poland or Latvia? Can you imagine the script in which you will send Russian troops to Poland?

W. Putin: Only in 1 case: if Poland attacks Russia. Why? due to the fact that we have no interests in Poland or Latvia – nowhere. What do we request it for? We just don't have any interests. There are only threats.

T. Carlson: The argument – I think you know it well – is this: yes, here he invaded Ukraine, has territorial claims across the continent. Are you saying clearly that there are no specified territorial claims?

W. Putin: It is absolutely impossible. You don't should be any analyst – it's against intuition to engage in any global war. And global war will bring all mankind to the brink of destruction. It's obvious.

There are, of course, deterrents. You've been scaring everyone all along: tomorrow, Russia will usage tactical atomic weapons. She used? – no, it's most likely the day after tomorrow. So what? These are just horror stories for average people to rob American taxpayers, take distant European taxpayers from additional money in a confrontation with Russia at the Ukrainian theatre of war. The goal is to make Russia as weak as possible.

T. Carlson: 1 of the elder senators, Chuck Schumer, said yesterday (February 8, this year): we must proceed to finance Ukraine, or yet American soldiers will gotta fight in Ukraine alternatively of Ukraine. How do you feel about that statement?

W. Putin: It is simply a provocation, with inexpensive provocation. I don't realize why American soldiers should fight in Ukraine. There are mercenaries from the United States. Most mercenaries from Poland, second – mercenaries from the USA, 3rd – from Georgia. If individual wants to send regular troops, they will surely put humanity at the brink of a very serious global conflict. It's obvious.

Does the United States request this? Why? Thousands of miles from the country! Don't you have anything else to do? You have quite a few problems at the border, problems with migration, problems with public debt, over $33 trillion. There is nothing to do – do you gotta fight in Ukraine?

Isn't it better to negociate with Russia? Agree already, knowing the situation that is unfolding today; knowing that Russia will fight for its interests to the end; and knowing yet it in fact, that we must return to common sense, start to respect our country, its interests and search solutions. I think there's a much smarter and more rational way.

T. Carlson: Who blew up Nord Stream?

W. Putin: The Lord, of course. (Laughter)

T. Carlson: I was busy that day. I didn't blow up Nord Stream.

W. Putin: You may personally have an alibi, but the CIA has no alibi.

T. Carlson: Do you have evidence that NATO or the CIA did this?

W. Putin: You know, I'm not going to go into details, but in cases like this they always say: look for individual who is interested. But in this case, you must search not only who is interested, but besides who can. due to the fact that there may be many interested, but not all can leave the bottom of the Baltic Sea and carry out this explosion. These 2 elements must be connected: who is curious and who can.

T. Carlson: I don't truly understand... It is the largest act of industrial terrorism in past and besides the largest CO2 emissions into the atmosphere. But since you have the evidence and your intelligence agencies, why don't you present specified evidence and win this propaganda war?

W. Putin: In the propaganda war, it is very hard to defeat the United States due to the fact that the United States controls all planet media and many Europeans. The eventual beneficiary of the largest European media is the American Funds. Don't you know that? That's why you can get active in this job, but what they say is more costly to yourself. We can just light our sources of information, but we can't accomplish the result. All over the world, it's so clear what happened, and even American analysts are talking about it directly. It's true.

T. Carlson: Yes, another question – you worked in Germany, you are well known, and Germany clearly understands that their NATO partners did it. Of course, it hit the German economy, so why are the Germans silent? It makes me uncomfortable: why didn't the Germans say anything about it?

W. Putin: I am amazed too. But today's German leadership is not guided by national interests, but by collective interests of the West, otherwise it is hard to explain the logic of their actions or idleness. After all, it is not just the North Stream-1 that was blown up. Nord Stream 2 has been damaged, but 1 tube is intact, is well and can be delivered through it to Europe, but Germany does not open it. We're ready, please.

There is another way – through Poland, “Jamał-Europe” is called. Large deliveries can besides be transported. Poland closed it, but Poland eats it from Germans, from pan-European funds receives money, and the main donor to these pan-European funds is Germany. Germany feeds Poland to any extent. And they took and closed the way to Germany. Why? I don't understand.

Now Ukraine, to which Germany delivers weapons and gives money.

Germany is the second sponsor after the United States in terms of financial assistance to Ukraine. 2 gas routes run through Ukraine. The Ukrainians just closed 1 route. Open the second way and ask for gas from Russia. But they don't open.

Why do not the Germans say: “Listen, friends, we give you money and weapons. Unwind the valve, delight send the Russian gas to us. We buy liquefied gas in Europe for a price which reduces the level of competitiveness of our economy as a full to zero. You want us to give you money? Let us be normally, gain on our economy, and we give you money from them.” No, they don't. Why? Ask them. What's in their heads? People are very incompetent there.

Bipolarity of the World

T. Carlson: possibly the planet is now divided into 2 hemispheres: 1 hemisphere with inexpensive energy, the another without it. I want to ask you a question: multipolar planet – can you describe alliances, blocks, who is on whose side, what do you think?

W. PutinYou said the planet is divided into 2 hemispheres. The head is divided into 2 hemispheres: 1 is liable for 1 field of activity, the another is more creative and so on. But it's inactive 1 head.

It is essential that the planet be united so that safety is shared alternatively than calculated for this "golden billion". Then – only in this case, – the planet will be stable, balanced and predictable. And as long as the head is divided into 2 parts, it is simply a disease, a severe illness. The planet is going through this period of severe illness.

But it seems to me that due to honest journalism – they [journalists], as doctors work – may be able to combine it somehow.

T. Carlson: Let me give you 1 example. The American dollar has united the full planet in many ways. Do you think the dollar will vanish as a reserve currency? How did sanctions change the place of the dollar in the world?

W. Putin: As you know, this is 1 of the biggest strategical mistakes of the United States political leaders – utilizing the dollar as a tool for abroad combat. The dollar is the basis of the U.S. power. I think everyone understands this perfectly: no substance how much you print dollars, they fly all over the world. Inflation in the US is minimal: in my opinion 3 percent, about 3.4, absolutely acceptable to the US. And of course they print indefinitely. What does a debt of 33 trillion say? That's the emissions.

Nevertheless, it is the main weapon to keep the power of the US in the world. erstwhile political leaders decided to usage the dollar as a tool for political combat, they hit that American power. I don't want to usage any non-literary expressions, but it's stupid and a immense mistake.

Look at what's happening in the world. Even among US allies, dollar stocks are shrinking now. Everybody's looking at what's going on and they're looking for a chance to defend themselves. But if restrictive measures are applied in any US countries, specified as reducing accounts, freezing resources and so on, it is simply a immense alarm and a signal to the full world.

What happened? By 2022, around 80 percent of Russian abroad trade accounts were in dollars and euro. At the same time, there was about 50 percent in our accounts with 3rd countries, and now, in my opinion, there is only 13 percent left. But we didn't ban the dollar, we didn't effort to do that. The U.S. has decided to cut our dollar bills. I think this is full bullshit, you understand, from the point of view of the interests of the United States itself, of taxpayers of the United States. due to the fact that it hits the US economy, it undermines the power of the United States in the world.

Incidentally, the yuan calculations were about 3 percent. Now 34 percent are accounted for in rubles and about the same, just over 34 percent in RMB.

Why did the United States do this? I can only explain it with arrogance. They thought everything would collapse, but nothing collapsed. What's more, see, another countries, including oil producing countries, are starting to talk, and they're already doing it, accounting for the sale of oil at RMB. Do you realize what's going on or not? Does anyone realize that in these United States? What are you doing? You're cutting off... all your experts ask, turn to all intelligent and reasoning individual in the United States: what is simply a dollar for the US? You kill him yourself.

Russia and China

T. Carlson: I think that's a truly honest assessment.

Next question. possibly you traded 1 colonial power for another, but more cost-effective? possibly BRICS is in danger today, possibly a more friendly colonial power – China, will dominate there? Is this good for sovereignty, as you think? Are you worried about that?

W. Putin: These horror movies are well known to us. It's a horror movie. China and I are neighbors. Neighbors and relatives are not chosen. We share a 1000 kilometers with them. That's one.

Secondly, we are accustomed to being together for centuries.

Thirdly, the Chinese doctrine of abroad policy is non-aggressive, the Chinese thought of abroad policy always seeks compromise and we see it.

The next point is this. They tell us all the time, and now you have tried to present this tale of horror in a soft form, but yet it is inactive the same communicative of horror: – the amount of cooperation with China is increasing. The rate of expanding cooperation between China and Europe is higher and higher than the rate of expanding cooperation with China of the Russian Federation. Ask Europeans: are they not afraid? possibly they're scared, I don't know, but they're trying to get on the Chinese marketplace at all costs, especially erstwhile they're having problems in the economy right now. And Chinese companies are taking over the European market.

What, is Chinese business in the U.S. scarcely present? Yes, political decisions are that they are trying to limit cooperation with China. Mr. Tucker, you're hurting yourself: by limiting your cooperation with China, you're hurting yourself. It's a thin sphere, and there are no simple linear solutions here, just like the dollar.

Therefore, before any illegal sanctions – illegal from the point of view of the Charter of the United Nations – everything needs to be decently considered. I think those who make decisions have a problem with that.

T. Carlson: You just said that today's planet will be much better if there are no 2 competing alliances, alliances that compete with each other. possibly today's American administration, as you say, is against us, but possibly the next administration in the US, the government after Joe Biden, will want to establish, improve contacts with you – will you want to establish contacts with them? Or is it not a role?

W. Putin: I will answer. But first, I will finish the answer to the erstwhile question. We have $200 billion. My friend, president Xi Jinping, and I have wagered that this year we should accomplish $200 billion in trade with China. And we crossed that line. According to our data, this is 230 billion, according to Chinese statistics, 240 billion dollars, if you number everything in dollars, we have a trade with China.

And a very crucial thing: we have this sustainable trade, it is complemented by advanced technologies, energy and technological development. He's very balanced.

As for BRICS as a full – Russia has become the president of BRICS since this year,- BRICS countries are developing at a very fast pace.

Look, God forbid you make a mistake, but in 1992, in my opinion, the share of 7 countries in the planet economy was 47 percent, and in 2022 it fell somewhere, in my opinion, to 30. The share of BRICS countries in 1992 was only 16 percent, and now exceeds the level of "seven". This has nothing to do with events in Ukraine. The trends in planet improvement and the planet economy are what I am talking about now, and that is inevitable. This will happen further: erstwhile the sun rises – it cannot be prevented, it needs to be adapted.

How do the United States adapt? By force: sanctions, pressures, bombings, usage of armed forces. It has to do with arrogance. People do not realize in your political elite that the planet is changing in nonsubjective circumstances and it is wise, in time to make the right decisions to keep its level, I apologize, even if individual wants the level of dominance. specified violent actions, including against Russia, let's say another countries, lead to the other result. It's obvious, it's already apparent today.

You asked me now, would another supervisor come and make a difference? It's not about the leader, not the personality of a peculiar person. I had a very good relation with... say, Bush. I know he was portrayed as any country guy who doesn't think much. I assure you, it's not. I believe that he has besides made many mistakes with respect to Russia. I told you about 2008 and the Bucharest decision to open the door to NATO in Ukraine and so on. It was with him, he was pushing on Europeans.

But in general, on a human level, I had very good relations and references with him. It is no worse than another American, Russian or European politicians. I assure you, he understood what he was doing, as did the others. Trump and I had specified a individual relationship.

It's not the personality of the leader, it's the temper of the elite. If the thought of dominance prevails in American society at all costs and with energy actions, nothing will change – it will only get worse. And if you yet realize that the planet is changing in nonsubjective circumstances and you should be able to adapt to them in time, utilizing the advantages that are inactive in the US present – then most likely something can change.

Look, China's economy has become the world's first economy in terms of purchasing power parity, and in terms of size it has overtaken the United States long ago. Then the United States and then India – 1.5 billion people, then Japan, in 5th place – Russia.

Russia last year became Europe's first economy, despite all sanctions and restrictions.

Is that average from your point of view? Sanctions, limitations, inability to settle in dollars, disconnection from SWIFT, sanctions against our oil ships, sanctions against aircraft – sanctions in everything, everywhere.

Russia is affected by the largest number of sanctions in the world. At that time, we became Europe's first economy.

The tools utilized by the US are not working. Well, you gotta think about what to do. If this awareness reaches the ruling elite, then the first individual of the state will act in anticipation of what voters and people who make decisions at different levels anticipate from it. Then something can change.

T. Carlson: You describe 2 different systems, you say the leader acts in the interests of voters, but at the same time any decisions are made by the ruling classes. You've been moving the country for many years. Who do you think makes decisions in America with your experience?

W. Putin: I don't know. America is simply a complex country, on the 1 hand conservative, on the another hand rapidly changing. It's not easy for us to figure it out.

Who decides in the election? Can this be understood erstwhile each state has its own legislation, each state regulates itself, individual can be removed from the election at state level. It is simply a two-step selection system, and it is very hard for us to figure out. Of course, 2 parties dominate: Republicans and Democrats. And within this organization system, decision-making centres that prepare decisions.

Then look at why, in relation to Russia after the dissolution of the russian Union, in my opinion, specified an erroneous, naughty, completely unwarranted policy of force was pursued. It's a policy of pressure. NATO expansion, support for separatists in the Caucasus, the creation of a rocket defence system, all of this is part of the pressure.

Pressure, pressure, pressure... then enlisting in NATO Ukraine. All the pressure, all the pressure... why?

I think that besides due to the fact that there were, comparatively speaking, surplus production capacity. During the fight against the russian Union, there were many different centres and specialists from the russian Union who knew nothing else. They seemed to convince political leaders: they had to proceed to choice up Russia, effort to perfect it, make a fewer quasi-state actors in this territory, and already submit to it in a divided form, exploit their combined possible for a future fight against China. This is simply a mistake, including the excessive possible of those who worked to face the russian Union. You gotta get free of it, there must be new, fresh forces, people who look to the future and realize what's happening in the world.

Let's see how Indonesia is developing! 600 million people. Where do you want to go? Nowhere. We simply gotta presume that Indonesia will enter, enter, into the club of the world's leading economies, whether they like it or not.

Yes, we realize and realize that in the United States, despite all economical problems, there is inactive a average situation and a decent growth of the economy - in my opinion 2.5% of GDP growth.

But if you supply for the future, you request to change your head about what's changing. As I said, the planet is inactive changing, no substance how the events in Ukraine end. The planet is changing. In the United States alone, experts compose that countries are gradually changing their position in the planet – experts themselves write, I read them. The question is, how will this happen: painful, fast or mild, gradual? And this is written by people who are not anti-American – they just look at the improvement trends in the world. That's all. To justice them, change policies, the request for people who think, look to the future, can analyse and urge decisions at the level of political leadership.

T. Carlson: I gotta ask. You clearly said that NATO's enlargement was a violation of promises and a threat to your country. But before you sent troops to Ukraine at a safety conference, the vice president of the United States supported the Ukrainian president's quest to join NATO. Do you think this has provoked war?

W. Putin: I repeat: we have repeatedly proposed to solve the problems that arose in Ukraine after the 2014 coup, with peaceful measures. But nobody listened. Moreover, Ukrainian leadership, which was under full control of the US, abruptly declared that it would not enforce Minsk agreements – they did not like anything there – and continued military activity in this territory. At the same time, it developed territory through NATO-wst military structures, acting under the appearance of various training and retraining centres. That's where they fundamentally started creating the bases. That's all.

In Ukraine, they announced that the Russians were – they adopted the bill – an unconstitutional nation, and at the same time adopted laws limiting the laws of unconstitutional nations. Ukraine. Ukraine, having received as a gift from the Russian people all these southeastern territories, abruptly announced that the Russians in this territory were an unconstitutional nation. All this together caused the decision to end the war that neo-Nazis started in Ukraine, in 2014, we took military action.

T. Carlson: Do you think that Zielenski is free to negociate a solution to this conflict?

W. Putin: I don't know. There are details, I'm certain it's hard to judge. But I think it was, in any case, possible. His father fought fascists, the Nazis during planet War II, I erstwhile talked to him about it. I said, “Volodya, what are you doing? Why are you supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine present erstwhile your father fought Fascism? He is simply a front man.” I won't say he answered, it's a separate subject, and I think it's incorrect.

But erstwhile it comes to freedom of choice – why not? He came to power on the expectations of the Ukrainian people that he would bring Ukraine to peace. He talked about it. He won the election with a immense advantage. But erstwhile he came to power, I think he realized 2 things.

Firstly, it is better not to argue with neo-Nazis and nationalists due to the fact that they are aggressive and very active – you can anticipate everything from them.

Secondly, the West, led by the United States, supports them and will always support those who fight Russia – it is beneficial and safe.

So he took the right position, despite his promise that his people would end the war in Ukraine. He tricked his constituents.

T. Carlson: Do you think that now, in February 2024, you are free to talk to your government, effort to search aid for your country? Can he even do it himself?

W. PutinWhy not? He thinks he's the head of state, won the election. Although we in Russia believe that everything that happened after 2014 has made the main origin of power a coup d'état, and in this sense even today's power is flawed. But he considers himself president and in this capacity he is recognized by both the United States, the full of Europe, and practically the remainder of the world. Why not? He can.

We had talks with Ukraine in Istanbul, and we agreed he knew. Moreover, the head of the negotiating group, Mr. Arachamia, (according to his name), has so far led the faction of the ruling party, the President's organization in the Council. To date, he besides directs the faction of the president in the Council – in the parliament of the country, he inactive sits there. He even put his first signature on that paper I'm telling you about. But then he publically stated around the world: “We were ready to sign this document, but Mr Johnson, then the Prime Minister of large Britain, talked us out of it and said that it was better to fight Russia. They're going to give us everything we can to get back to the lost in a fight with Russia. And we agreed to this proposal." Look, his message has been published. He said it in public.

Can they go back to that or not? That's the question: do they want it or not? And then the president of Ukraine issued a decree prohibiting negotiations with us. Let them repeal this decree, and that's all. We never gave up negotiations. We keep hearing: Is Russia ready, ready? Yeah, we didn't say no! They're the ones who publically refused. Well, let him cancel his decree and enter into negotiations. We never said no.

And the fact that they have given in to demands or instigations of the erstwhile Prime Minister of large Britain, Mr Johnson, seems comic to me and very, how to say – sad. Because, as Mr Arachamia said, “we could have stopped these fighting a year and a half ago, but the British persuaded us and refused”. Where is Mr. Johnson now? And the war is on.

T. Carlson: That's a good question. Why would he do that?
W. PutinHe knows him, he knows him, I don't realize him. The overall ‘status’ was. For any reason everyone had the illusion that Russia could be overcome on the battlefield—out of arrogance, out of pure heart, but not out of a large mind.

Orthodox and Ecumenical Russia

T. Carlson: You described the relation between Russia and Ukraine, described Russia as an Orthodox country, spoke of it. What does that mean to you? You are the leader of a Christian country, as he describes himself. How does that affect you?

W. Putin: As you remember, I said that in 988 Prince Vladimir was baptized, he baptized himself like his grandmother, Princess Olga, and then baptized his team, and then, gradually, in a fewer years, baptized all Russia. It was a long process – from Gentiles to Christians, it lasted many years. But yet this Orthodox, east Christianity, is profoundly rooted in the consciousness of the Russian people.

When Russia developed and absorbed another nations that profess Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, it was always very loyal to those people who profess another religions. That's her strength. That's absolutely clear.

And the fact is that in all the religions of the planet I have now spoken of and which are the conventional religions of the Russian Federation, in fact the main thesis, the basic values are very similar, if not to say they are the same. And always the Russian authorities cared very much about the culture and religion of those nations that belonged to the Russian Empire. This, in my view, is the basis for both the safety and stableness of the Russian state. due to the fact that all nations in Russia mostly consider it their homeland.

If, for example, people decision to your country from Latin America or Europe – an even clearer and more understandable example – then these people came to your country or to European countries from their historical homeland. And people who profess different religions in Russia consider Russia their homeland – they have no another homeland.

We're together, he's a large family. And conventional values are very akin to us. I said “this is 1 large family” without forgetting that everyone has their own family, and that is the basis of our society. And if we say that a peculiar homeland and household are very connected, that's what it is. due to the fact that we cannot guarantee a average future for our children and household unless we supply a normal, sustainable future for the full country, for our homeland. That is why patriotism is so developed in Russia.

T. Carlson: If you don't mind, religions are different. The point is that Christianity is simply a peaceful religion, Christ says, “replace the another cheek,” do not kill ” and so on. And how can a leader be a Christian if individual else needs to be killed? How can this be reconciled?

W. Putin: It's very easy to defend yourself and your family, your homeland. We're not attacking anyone. Where did events in Ukraine begin? Since the coup d'état and since the beginning of the Donbasa combat action – this is it. We defend our people, ourselves, our homeland and our future.

When it comes to religion in general, it is not in external manifestations, in going to church all day or in beating your head to the floor. He's in his heart. And we have a human-oriented culture. Dostoevsky, who is very well known in the West as a genius of Russian culture, Russian literature, spoke much about this – about the Russian soul.

But Western society is more pragmatic. The Russian thinks more about eternity, thinks more about ethical values, about morality. I don't know if you wouldn't agree with me, but Western culture is more pragmatic. I am not saying that this is simply a bad thing, it gives today's "golden billion" a chance to make good advancement in production, even in discipline and so on. There's nothing incorrect here, I'm just saying we look the same, but consciousness is simply a small different.

T. Carlson: Do you think there's anything supernatural going on here? erstwhile you look at what is happening in the world, do you see God's works? Are you telling yourself that you see the actions of superhuman forces here?

W. Putin: No, honestly, I don't think so. I think that the global community is developing in accordance with its own interior laws and they are as they are. You can't escape it, it's always been like this in human history. any nations and countries arose, multiplied, strengthened, and then descended from the global arena as they were accustomed to. I most likely don't gotta give these examples: starting with the same Horde conquerors, Genghis Khan, then the Golden Orde, ending with the large Roman Empire. There seems to have been nothing like the large Roman Empire in human history.

Nevertheless, the possible of barbarians gradually grew, grew, and under their blows the Roman Empire fell apart due to the fact that there were more barbarians, they began to make mostly well, as we say, economically, they began to strengthen. And the government which in the planet was imposed by the large Roman Empire fell apart. It is actual that it fell apart for a long time – 500 years, the process of decomposition of the large Roman Empire lasted 500 years. The difference in today’s situation is that the process of change is much faster present than in the large Roman Empire.

T. Carlson: ...but erstwhile will the empire of artificial intelligence begin?

W. Putin: You're putting me into more and more complex questions. To answer that, of course, you request to be a specialist in large numbers, in this area of artificial intelligence.

Humanity has many threats: investigation on genetics that can make superhuman, a peculiar man: a man-warrior, a man-scientist, a man-sporter. Now they're saying that in the United States, Elon Musk implanted a chip into a person's brain.

T. Carlson: What do you think?

W. Putin: I think the Muska cannot be stopped – it will do what it considers appropriate anyway. But we gotta deal with him, we gotta find ways to convince him. I think she's an intelligent person, which means I'm sure. She's an intelligent person. We gotta agree with him that this process must be canonized, subject to certain rules.

Of course, humanity must think of what will happen to it in connection with the improvement of these latest investigation and technology in genetics or artificial intelligence. You can see what happens. Therefore, erstwhile mankind felt threatened by atomic weapons, all atomic weapons holders began to agree with each another due to the fact that they understood that their careless usage could lead to complete, complete destruction.

When it comes to knowing that unlimited and uncontrolled improvement of artificial intelligence, either genetics or another modern directions that can't be stopped, that's how this investigation will continue. Just as it was impossible to hide what gunpowder was from humanity and it was impossible to halt investigation in 1 or another. These studies will continue, but erstwhile humanity feels threatened for itself, humanity as a whole, it seems to me that there will be a period of agreement at interstate level on how we will regulate this.

Journalism and Spying

T. Carlson: Thank you very much for your time. I want to ask you 1 more question. Evan Gershkovich, 32, an American journalist, has been imprisoned for over a year. It's a large communicative in the United States. I want to ask you: are you ready, in a motion of goodwill, to release him so that we can take him to the United States?

W. Putin: We've made so many gestures of goodwill, I think we've exhausted all limits. No 1 has always responded to the gestures of goodwill with akin gestures. But basically, we're ready to talk about how we don't regulation out that we can do this erstwhile we're coming from our partners.

When I say “partners”, I mean first of all representatives of peculiar services. They are in contact with each another and discuss this. We don't have taboos to solve this problem. We are ready to resolve it, but there are certain conditions that are being discussed through the partner channels between peculiar services. I think we can work this out.

T. Carlson: Of course, everything has been happening for centuries – the country catches a spy, stops him and then replaces him with someone. Of course, it's no of my business, but this situation differs by the fact that this individual is definitely not a spy – it's just a “child”. And he may have violated your law, but he's not a spy and he surely wasn't spying. possibly he's in a different category, though. possibly it would be unfair to ask individual else in exchange for him.

W. Putin: You know, you can find who's a spy, who's not a spy, but there are certain things provided for by the law. If a individual receives classified information, he does it in a conspiracy way, it's called espionage. That's what he was doing: he got locked up, secret information, and he was doing it in a conspiracy. I don't know, possibly he was pulled in, individual could have dragged him into this case, possibly he did everything by neglect, on his own initiative. But in fact, it's called espionage. And everything was proven due to the fact that he was taken in the act – after receiving this information. If it were any kind of imaginary thing, something fancy, unprovoked, that would be a different story. He was taken in the act erstwhile he received classified information on a conspiracy basis. What is this?

T. Carlson: You say you worked for the U.S. government, for NATO, or possibly you're just a writer who received information that shouldn't be in his hands? I think there's inactive a difference between the 2 categories.

W. Putin: I don't know who he worked for. But I repeat: obtaining classified information on a conspiracy basis is called espionage, and he worked in the interests of American peculiar services, any another structures. I do not think that he is working for Monaco - it is improbable that Monaco is curious in obtaining this information. It's the peculiar services that gotta work out, you know? There are any achievements there, there are people who, in our opinion, are besides not connected with peculiar services.

Let me tell you, he is in 1 of the countries, an allied country with the United States, a man who, for patriotic reasons, liquidated a bandit in 1 of the European capitals. Do you know what he was doing during events in the Caucasus? I don't want to tell you, but I'm inactive gonna say, he was throwing our soldiers in captivity on the road, and then he drove his car through their heads. Who is this man and is this man? But there is simply a patriot who has liquidated him in 1 of the European capitals. Whether he did it on his own initiative or not is another matter.

T. Carlson: Evan Gershkovich didn't do anything like that, it's a full different story.

W. Putin: He did something else.

T. Carlson: He's just a journalist.

W. Putin: It is not just a journalist, I repeat. He's a writer who received classified information on a conspiracy basis. Well, yeah, that's a full different story.

I'm just talking about those people who are under the control of the U.S. government, sitting anywhere in prison, and there's a dialog between the peculiar services. It should be solved quietly, calmly, on a professional level. Contacts are here, let them work.

I'm not ruling out that the man you told me about, Mr. Gierskowicz, may be in the country. Why not? It doesn't make sense, more or less, to keep him in prison in Russia. But let our colleagues on the American side of peculiar services besides think about how to solve the problems facing our peculiar services. We're not locked up for negotiations. Moreover, these negotiations are ongoing and there have been many cases where we have negotiated. We can negociate now, but we just gotta negotiate.

T. Carlson: I hope you let him go. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

W. Putin: I want he'd yet come home. I'm being completely honest. But I repeat, the dialog continues. The more we make these things public, the harder it is to solve them. Everything should be quiet.

Prepared to talk

T. Carlson: To be honest, war. I don't know, it works or it doesn't work. If you don't mind, I'll ask you 1 more question.

You may not want to respond for strategical reasons, but are you not worried that what is happening in Ukraine can lead to something much bigger and much more frightening? And how ready are you, motivated to call the U.S. for example and say, "Let's negotiate?"

W. Putin: Look, I've already said: we're not getting out of the conversation. We do not refuse – it is the western side, and Ukraine is undoubtedly a satellite of the United States today. It's obvious. It's actual I don't want it to sound like any kind of curse or insult, but we understand.

What's going on? Financial support – 72 billion [US dollars - ed.] – got, in second place are Germany, another European countries, tens of billions of dollars go to Ukraine. There's a immense stream of weapons coming.

Say to today's leadership of Ukraine: perceive – let's sit down, negotiate, cancel your stupid “slash” or decree and sit down, negotiate. We didn't say no.

T. Carlson: Yes, you said that. Of course, I realize perfectly well that this is not a curse. And it has indeed been reported that Ukraine was not allowed to sign the peace at the command of the erstwhile British Prime Minister, who acted on orders from Washington. That's why I'm asking you, why don't you deal straight with the Biden administration that controls the Zelenski administration in Ukraine?

W. Putin: If the Zelenski administration in Ukraine refused to negotiate, I say they did it on Washington's orders. Now, if they see in Washington that it's a bad decision, they'll give it up, find any excuse, no insulting anyone, find the solution. We did not make those decisions – that's where the decision was made, let them give it up. That's all. They made the incorrect decision.

Now we gotta find a way out of this inappropriate decision, tails introduce, correct your mistakes? They have committed—let them repair. We're in.

T. Carlson: I want to make certain I realize you correctly. I mean, you want to negociate a solution to what's happening in Ukraine now, right?

W. Putin: That's right. We managed to accomplish this, we created a large paper in Istanbul, which was initialled by the head of the Ukrainian delegation. There is his signature, on the passage of this agreement, not on everything, but on the passage. He signed and then said: “We were ready to sign, and the war would have ended long ago. But Mr. Johnson arrived, he led us to it, and we lost this opportunity.” Well, they left out, they made a mistake – let them go back to that, that's all. But why would we make a fuss and fix someone's mistakes?

I understand, it can be said that our mistake, that we have intensified our efforts and with weapons we have decided to end this war, as I said, started in 2014 in Donbasa. But I'll direct you further, I've already told you, I've already talked to you today.

Let us return to 1991, erstwhile we were promised not to grow NATO, let us return to 2008 erstwhile the gates to NATO were opened, let us return to the Declaration of independency of Ukraine, where it declared itself neutral.

Let us return to the fact that NATO and US bases, English bases, have begun to emergence in the territory of Ukraine, creating these threats for us.

Let us return to the fact that the coup was carried out in Ukraine in 2014. Doesn't make sense, does it? We can rotation that ball back and distant forever. but they interrupted the negotiations. Wrong? Yeah, fix it. We're ready. What else?

T. Carlson: Don't you think it would be besides humiliating for NATO to now consider Russia a control over what was Ukrainian territory 2 years ago?

W. Putin: And I said, "Let them think about how to do it with dignity." There are options, but if there is

T. Carlson: Are you ready to say, for example, NATO: congratulations, you have won, let us keep the situation as it is.

W. Putin: You know, this is the subject of negotiations that no 1 wants to lead with us, or alternatively they want to, but they don't know how. I know what they want – not only do I see it, but I know what they want, but they can't figure out how to do it. We thought, we've led to the situation we're in. We did not do it, but our “partners”, our opponents, have done it. Okay, now let's let them figure out how to turn it the another way around. We're not saying no.

It would be fun if it wasn't so sad. This endless mobilization in Ukraine, hysteria, interior problems, that's all... sooner or later, we'll get along. And you know what? It may even sound unusual in today's situation: the relations between nations will inactive be restored. It'll take a long time, but they'll be fine.

I'll give you any extraordinary examples. On the battlefield there is simply a clash, a concrete example: Ukrainian soldiers were surrounded – this is simply a concrete example of life, of fighting. Our soldiers shout to them: “You have no chance, give up! Leave, you will live, surrender!’ And suddenly, from there in Russian, good Russian, they shout, “Russians don’t give up!” and they all died. They inactive feel like Russians.

In this sense, what is happening is to any degree part of the civilian war. And everyone in the West thinks that fighting has forever taken 1 part of the Russian people distant from the other. Nope. The connection will come. It didn't go anywhere.

Why do the Ukrainian authorities bring in the Russian Orthodox Church? due to the fact that it does not unite territory, but souls, and no 1 will be able to divide it.

Are we done or are we done?

T. Carlson: At my place, that's all. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

Moscow, Kremlin, February 9, 2024

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[1] – Corienization (ru. коренизация, корень – root) – return to roots, national policy of the russian Union in the early 1920s.
The policy of corienization (return to roots) was formulated in 1913 by Józef Stalin. Implementation began after the October Revolution.