Conversation with Alain Escada, leader of the Catholic Civitas movement
You are the president of Civitas International, a coordinating organization for the activities of Civitas associations in Belgium, Italy, Switzerland, Spain and even Lebanon.
– Lebanon, Mexico, large Britain, too, which is not so apparent to Catholics, but we besides have a branch in Britain.
You have 165,000 members.
– So they are not members as such. say we have a base of 165,000 followers who receive our press releases, messages and instructions all week.
Good, isn't there Civitas Poland?
– Unfortunately not, but possibly this program will inspire any Poles to aid us build something. I would very much like Civitas Polska to be created.
Could you explain to us the roots of Civitas, its history, actions and objectives?
– Civitas was founded in 1999, and its founders were mostly erstwhile officers. The thought was to transform it into a Catholic training institute, educating management staff, people who could influence society from a Catholic point of view, whether in the planet of politics, business, culture or troops. For any time, we were limited to a training institute, but after thinking, the founders felt that it was worth doing something else, taking action. Then I was asked to take work for Civitas and make it a movement that would take up public space. We should play a prominent function in campaigns against abortion, euthanasia and, of course, against the denaturing of marriage. erstwhile the debate on alleged gay marriages got heated in France, we were on the front line of this fight, we defended the conventional definition of matrimony and family, we opposed the adoption of children by gay couples. We took the position in a very visible way, we were present in all tv debates, we organized large street demonstrations, we besides conducted large campaigns against blasphemous spectacles or blasphemous exhibitions, there were besides crucial mobilizations of Catholics in the streets, in front of theatres, in front of exhibition halls, to show that we wanted to put an end to the permanent, recurring crimes that took place in France against Catholics, with the support of the planet of politics, the planet of culture and sponsors, financiers, people from large financials, due to the fact that many blasphemous shows had as sponsors rather crucial businessmen specified as Pierre Berger, who was already dead, and who was a billionaire supporting everything that was anti-Christian. And then we besides took an crucial place in the debate against wellness dictatorship. In the days of the COVID-19 pandemic, we opposed compulsory vaccinations and blockades, and then took effective legal steps to reconstruct the right to participate in the Holy Mass at a time erstwhile the blockades prevented access to churches and the adoption of sacraments. Therefore, twice during each of the lockdowns, we went to court, the Council of State, and we won the case, so that Catholics could participate in Mass again.
Alain Escada
Were the churches closed?
– The churches were closed by order of the state, with the participation of many bishops.
So let us talk specifically about the state of Catholicism in France. On Saturday, April 15, 2019 at Notre-Dame Cathedral, we saw that everyone was moved. Notre-Dame was rebuilt.
– A lot could be said about the way the building was renovated and how it was disfigured: the stained glass was missing, and the old furniture was replaced by terrible contemporary artistic furniture. We must realise that this is simply a deliberate action, that the public authorities have been implementing a real operation, which has been going on for respective terms of office, aimed at gradually blurring the traces of Christianity in France, limiting it and transforming the traces they want to preserve, in transformed footsteps, which in fact no longer reflect what Catholicism truly is. erstwhile you look at fresh stained glass windows in Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, they have nothing to do with old stained glass windows. There was no reason to remove old stained glass. It is rather remarkable that Notre-Dame Cathedral was destroyed as a consequence of the fire and had to be rebuilt, received a fresh look and became a kind of spiritual contemporary art museum.
Olympic Games, Olympic celebrations, the celebrated but heavy criticized ones. We see in peculiar the scene, the scene of Jesus' Last Supper, directed.
– There's no uncertainty about that. The full organization of the Olympics was approved by the Elysée Palace and the president of the Republic. So we cannot consider this substance any another way than as the desire of government to broadcast on the global phase – since all this is broadcast by tv almost all over the planet – to make a image of France that mocks Christianity, mocks Christ, and puts all fresh ideologies, LGBT, all immorality, all perversions on pedestal. The replacement of Christ and the apostles with the almost bare character Dionysus, as well as transsexuals, transvestites, is wicked.
It is frequently believed that Muslims attack churches. From what you're saying, they're French bishops and the state...
– A state that acts in a dominant way with the apparent participation of a large part of bishops. Not all of them, but quite a few them. There are besides Satanic sects in France that are known to advance specified anti-Christian acts. Muslims... Of course, there were certain acts of violence, including slitting the priest’s throat in a church in a village in France, in front of an altar. Something truly terrible. However, this in itself does not full reflect the majority of anti-Christian acts in France. The vast majority points to secular politics, profoundly hostile to Catholicism.
How organized is the traditionalist movement? What is the Second Vatican Council criticizing for?
– So, first of all, I say this only on behalf of a faithful member, a parishioner, if I may say so. I'm not a community spokesman. I don't talk as a clergyman. I do not talk as a theologian, but as a advocate of tradition. I note above all that the Church of the Council, and thus the Church of the Second Vatican Council, is ageing. His churches are empty. His cults and liturgical ceremonies no longer attract anyone. His priests are old. His seminars are empty. He's dying. In this form, the Second Vatican Council does not attract anyone. On the another hand, Catholic tradition, which was portrayed as an absurd thought of people clinging to the past, is based on multi-children families, young households, seminars with young priests and clergy who are renewing themselves. And this means – I am a witness to it – that the future of the Church at any point will be based more on tradition, due to the fact that it continues to be renewed in subsequent generations than on the post-sobor Church, which itself is increasingly dying.
In France, Archbishop Lefebvre initiated this initiative. What was he so critical of in Vatican Council II?
– I will effort to present this in a simple and understandable way for as many people as possible: Vatican Council II is simply a revolution in the Church. First of all, it is simply a liturgical revolution, which puts man in the foreground, while so far God was in the foreground. In liturgical form, we can see that in the past, and this is inactive the case in tradition, the priest, erstwhile celebrating Mass, is turned towards God, not toward men, due to the fact that he worships God, not men. The Second Vatican Council reversed this trend. The priest performs Mass in the back to God and in the face of men. You see the words of prayer Our Father, which have been transformed by the Council, suggesting that God may, for example, exposure himself to temptation. In the ancient expression of prayer, our Father said: Do not let us succumb to temptation. The Church of the Council said, "Do not lead us into temptation. It doesn't substance at all. God does not yield to temptation. He cannot yield to temptation. For example, erstwhile a priest grants holy communion and the Church has always believed that God is actually present in the host, it is average that the transfer of the host to the faithful is part of a ceremony of a peculiar spiritual character, which means that the priest places the host on the tongue so that it is immediately absorbed by the Body and Blood. Today, in the Church of the Council, the host is given to believers as if they were taking potato chips or candy. On the 1 hand, we have a liturgical revolution.
Then comes the doctrinal revolution. The Second Vatican Council not only reformed the liturgy, but besides the doctrine of the Church. He opened the door to relativism anyway. He claimed what is heresy that all religions are equal and that salvation can be found in another religions, which is an aberration. If you are a clergyman of a religion, it is simply a priori due to the fact that you think that religion contains the truth. At this point, it cannot be assumed that there are many truths that these truths are scattered among different religions. It doesn't make sense. If you want to save your soul, you must bring it to the only religion that proclaims the truth. You can't leave her in the dark. This is simply a typical component of the doctrinal revolution. Then we have a political revolution. This means that present the Vatican has become, at political level, almost a subsidiary of the planet economical Forum in Davos. It supports the fight against global warming and openness to homosexuals. He's part of the woke propaganda.
Pope Francis left behind a divisive legacy.
– That's more than sharing. It's tragic. Consider any examples. Consider the example of Catholics in China. The agreement signed between the Vatican and the Chinese government was entirely unfavourable to Chinese Catholics. The thought was accepted that the Chinese communist government would decide on bishops and have the right to impose all these anti-freedom laws on Catholics. This is absolutely outrageous. The Vatican agreed to proceed the persecution of Catholics in China, at the expense of bishops and priests who are imprisoned. I remind you that those who stay faithful to the Church and refuse to submit to the Chinese communist government are regularly imprisoned.
Catholics are Christians, as are Orthodox. Don't you think, as a traditionalist, that the first tradition is the Council of good in Greece, written in Greek and not in Latin?
– I don't think it's fair to say that services should be in Greek. If we go back to the past, why not request that the service be held in Aramaic? The first services were in Aramaic. Or Armenian due to the fact that the first Catholic state was Armenia. In fact, if the choice fell on Latin, it was primarily due to the fact that the Western Church developed among the nations, in the territory where Latin was the most common language.
So why do we blame the Second Vatican Council for utilizing national languages?
– due to the fact that the difference is important. In the Western world, Latin was a language that united nations, a common language. That's why she was chosen by the Church. From the beginning, the Church did not want any nation to be able to execute services in their own language. By definition, with the emergence of the Roman Empire, Latin became a common language in Western areas. For us traditionalists, it is precisely this unity in the Church through Latin that is important. If, as a Catholic, I participate in a Holy Mass celebrated in a conventional ritual in Asia, Africa, Poland, Germany or Latin America, I will inactive realize Mass due to the fact that the full rite is in Latin. This is the unity of the Church. On the another hand, if during my travels I had to attend Mass all time in the language of a given country, by definition I would not realize it due to the fact that I do not have the talent to realize all the languages of the world.
Is the papal primacy truly a major problem in relations between Orthodox and Catholics, or a political issue?
– I believe that we should never consider these issues on the basis of temporary reflection. This rule must stay balanced. This principle, by definition, is more crucial than a circumstantial historical moment. Papacy as a political unit and as a supranational Catholic monarchy offered many benefits. Of course, it enabled the improvement and power of the Church for centuries, thanks to the fact that we had popes who wanted to truly service the Church. Of course, in the context of the interior transformation of the Church, this becomes a drawback, but we cannot challenge the higher principle, due to the fact that at this point in past in the Church an interior revolution is being carried out. As for Orthodoxy, as you say, in all Orthodox country there is an Orthodox superior to the hierarchy. This is what strengthens the influence of political power on orthodoxy. This means that for decades the Orthodox patriarch of Russia, Bulgaria and Romania has remained in best relations with the ruling. He must maneuver with political power. He does not have the independency he could have as a typical of a power beyond the borders of nations. This is simply a large advantage of Catholic religion for centuries. If bishops or cardinals were subjected to force from local or national authorities, they were primarily dependent on the Pope, and the Pope had in peculiar the power to excommunicate the heads of state. Indeed, specified a power relation existed. It should be remembered that over the centuries the Pope has excommunicated repeatedly the leaders of states that terrorized Catholics or did not follow the principles of the Church.
There are those who claim that since 1958 there has been no pope, that Rome is no longer Rome.
– The fact that Rome is no longer Rome is obvious. I am not a theologian to talk on the subject of theoreticians and Sedevacants to justice whether the Pope is Pope or not, but in any case, in today's Rome, there is indeed a heresy, and Rome is no longer Rome. Nevertheless, the eternal doctrine of the Church remains unchanged and so we cannot make the Church in parallel. We can't make a counter-church. We must act and pray for Rome to become a fresh Rome, not a fresh Rome elsewhere.
Last word?
– I would like to thank you for allowing me to scope the Polish public. Let us hope that Civitas Poland will be born from specified contact. Thank you again.
Thank you very much.
Aleksandra Klunik-Schaller spoke
Alain Escada (born 1970 in Brussels) – activist of Catholic traditionalist movements, since 2012 has been at the forefront of the Civitas movement, which organized the largest protests against gay matrimony in France. He besides directs the Coalition for Life and Family.
The full interview to watch on YouTube channel Against Censur.
Think Poland, No. 25-26 (22-29.06.2025)
